This topic contains 17 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Lisa 2 months ago.

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  • #82717

    SteveK26
    Participant

    There is a good article by Craig Lord on SwimVortex that prompted me to start this thread.

    I was totally exasperated when Coe and the IAAF were the ONLY ones to place a ban on the Russian Federation competing in Rio.

    We now read (surprise surprise) that they have been actively cheating and using sport as a propaganda machine for the last 30 years at least.

    I would like to see all Russians banned from International Sporting events. A bit like the apartheid ban on S Africa all those years ago. I know its not the same situation, but the apartheid ban eventually changed things.

    I can no longer watch a Russian without thinking about drugs. I can no longer think about any Russian official without linking them to corruption.

    They are blatantly laughing in our faces, and I’m sick of it.

    #82730

    SteveK26
    Participant

    Group G will be too difficult for England anyway. If they do go, they’ll be home counting their cash before you know it.

    #82746

    david
    Participant

    Steve
    There are a few things England/Britain/France/Germany … should be ashamed of that they did over the decades/centuries

    Russia likewise. However there are people in Russia just trying to get on with their lives, best they can.

    see
    https://www.economist.com/puteens
    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/mar/31/moscow-biggest-urban-demolition-project-khrushchevka-flats

    I would like to think that there are some Russian athletes wanting to play things fairly, though which ones it is difficult to know – likewise for instance GBR athletes.

    Mind you I guess (tho’ what proof do I have) that the percentage of RUS athletes who have dabbled in drugs will be greater than GBR athletes. Yes for instance I think Edwards, Radcliffe were both clean … Mo very strongly claims he is clean … but a ‘but’ hovers.

    Finally how dodgy will it be for ENG FB fans to go to RUS? I think of, for instance, the reputation, given by the media, re some RUS FB fans (some ENG FB fans aren’t too pure either though).

    #82759

    james
    Participant
    There is a good article by Craig Lord on SwimVortex that prompted me to start this thread.

    I was totally exasperated when Coe and the IAAF were the ONLY ones to place a ban on the Russian Federation competing in Rio.

    We now read (surprise surprise) that they have been actively cheating and using sport as a propaganda machine for the last 30 years at least.

    I would like to see all Russians banned from International Sporting events. A bit like the apartheid ban on S Africa all those years ago. I know its not the same situation, but the apartheid ban eventually changed things.

    I can no longer watch a Russian without thinking about drugs. I can no longer think about any Russian official without linking them to corruption.

    They are blatantly laughing in our faces, and I’m sick of it.

    And so say all of us who not the frigging Stooges that exists here, sadly.

    #82774

    SteveK26
    Participant

    My second post on this should have been preceded by a post that said I hope our footballers don’t go to the World Cup, I must have forgotten to insert the CAPTCHA code.

    #82775

    SteveK26
    Participant

    David

    This is a much wider issue than whether or not GB are squeaky clean. I know that cannot be the case.

    But the cynicism of the Russians goes so far beyond the numbers of GB cheats its not really debatable.
    Only one other Country is probably in their League.

    These two countries have got away with it for so long because their corruption goes hand in hand with great political power.
    I absolutely hate watching Sun Yang swanning around Global swimming Champs with the FINA cronies bowing and scraping.

    #82798

    david
    Participant

    Steve
    Yes I’ll accept there maybe the matter of scale differences & it seems ‘clear’ the Governing Body involvement.
    #####
    An aside from your RUS drugs concern, but perhaps related …

    In your topic ‘the good old days’ there has been much said about Pettigrew v Akabusi back in ’91 in a World Champs 4×400 final

    M 4×400
    ’91 World Champs final, final leg Pettigrew USA v Akabusi GBR; GBR won by 0.04s
    ’93 World Champs 1 USA 2.54.29 WR
    ’98 NY 2july USA 2.54.20 not WR: included druggie Pettigrew

    Was Pettigrew clean in ’91? …

    Some here might put their life savings, their home, on saying that Akabusi was a clean athlete, including in 1991 …

    #82816

    SteveK26
    Participant

    No reason to suspect Akabusi of any foul play. His career started late, and he improved year on year at a steady rate.

    Pettigrew is a different story, ultimately. Whether he was clean in 1991, who knows?

    #95614

    Lisa
    Participant

    Something I’ve just noticed, is that several of the athletes who were cleared to compete as neutrals last year, don’t seem to be on the current list. Not sure if I’m missing something?

    Current list: http://www.european-athletics.org/european-athletics/what-we-do/antidoping/ana.html

    ANA at last year;s WCs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Neutral_Athletes_at_the_2017_World_Championships_in_Athletics

    #95618

    Gavin
    Participant
    Something I’ve just noticed, is that several of the athletes who were cleared to compete as neutrals last year, don’t seem to be on the current list. Not sure if I’m missing something?

    Current list: http://www.european-athletics.org/european-athletics/what-we-do/antidoping/ana.html

    ANA at last year;s WCs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorised_Neutral_Athletes_at_the_2017_World_Championships_in_Athletics

    That European Athletics list isn’t fully up to date. The other day the IAAF announced 9 more applications had been approved, mostly walkers but also including Sergei Shubenkov.

    Also, they’ve all had to re-apply and from the IAAF press release it seems that over 80 applications are still in the system (140+ applications total; 30 have been approved so far & 30 have been denied.)

    #95624

    Lisa
    Participant

    Thanks, Lucky – that explains it.

    #95628

    james
    Participant

    Those nasty creeps from Russia, parading their self pitying paranoia for all to witness, always scream about no evidence of their misdemeanours, but when one who really knew the extent they indulged in state wide cheating for years in the OG , Rodchenko, who gave the gory details, had to escape to USA for safety and natch was a traitor to Mother Russia.
    The Russians are the past masters of lies and disinformation and are well aware of the old adage that the bigger the lie and the more often expressed the more likely you are to be believed(might have been Goebbels).

    #95665

    SteveK26
    Participant
    Those nasty creeps from Russia, parading their self pitying paranoia for all to witness, always scream about no evidence of their misdemeanours, but when one who really knew the extent they indulged in state wide cheating for years in the OG , Rodchenko, who gave the gory details, had to escape to USA for safety and natch was a traitor to Mother Russia.
    The Russians are the past masters of lies and disinformation and are well aware of the old adage that the bigger the lie and the more often expressed the more likely you are to be believed(might have been Goebbels).

    Philipo

    I agree with all that.

    I know a lot on here will draw a huge intake of indignation when I say that I would be happiest if the Russians were excluded from ALL international sport.
    Who needs them? Who trusts them?

    To use a quote from Prince Charles, ”they are a carbuncle on the face of society”.

    #95671

    Lisa
    Participant

    The only issue I would have (seeing as they are clearly not honest in any way) is that making them into an even greater pariah nation is not great for world security.

    #95672

    SteveK26
    Participant
    The only issue I would have (seeing as they are clearly not honest in any way) is that making them into an even greater pariah nation is not great for world security.

    Hows that then?

    You think we should pander to Putin on the sporting front ( ie allow him to enter all his doped up combatants ) in the hope that somehow that would appease this madman?
    You have seen all the missiles flying around lately, have you?

    I also think its time for May to suggest strongly that England pull out of the World Cup. I cant see how we can send our millionaire playboy footballers to strut their mediocrity over there in June. They probably wouldn’t win a game anyway but the opportunity for total carnage now with English fans is way too great.

    #95674

    Lisa
    Participant

    That’s my concern – he’s clearly not very stable, and we don’t want matters to get worse. I don’t want to pander to him, no, but isolation just makes people like that worse. (Obviously they should have to submit to regulation in order to compete.) But perhaps we’re straying into politics?

    I agree we should pull out of the football; but do you think the international football authorities should move the entire competition out of Russia, or cancel it?

    #95677

    SteveK26
    Participant

    Thats a very good question, OH.

    I don’t know the answer, either, but I think it might be too difficult to shift the comp at this late stage. And I cant see FIFA having the stomach or resolve to alter their highly important plans just because of a little ‘spat’ between England and Russia! :whistle:
    Did the Yanks qualify? that would add to the mix :yahoo:

    #1021471

    Lisa
    Participant

    The new list of athletes being investigated by the Athletics Integrity Unit includes Ivan Ukhov. Most of the other names were previously announced, I think.

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