This topic contains 112 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  james 2 months ago.

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  • #97633

    SteveK26
    Participant

    I made the same comment about Sawyers a while back on a different thread.

    More derision came my way because (apparently) she is not tall enough.

    #97644

    RunUnlimited
    Participant
    I made the same comment about Sawyers a while back on a different thread.

    More derision came my way because (apparently) she is not tall enough.

    Lack of height should have nothing to do with it.

    Sure, Jazmin doesn’t have them telescopic legs and long levers that Iburguen, Rojas, or heck, even our own Ashia Hansen, possessed. But that doesn’t mean she couldn’t convert her impressive (diminutive) size to jumping distance ratio into being a competitive performer in the triple jump discipline. Lest we forget that Johnathan Edwards was probably the shortest guy in every competition he took part in… and yet 23 years later he *still* holds one of the most impressive world records on the books, despite Christian Taylor’s best efforts to oust him! 🙂

    #97645

    RunUnlimited
    Participant

    Totally agree with that last point. For me, a heck of a lot more long jumpers (plus other sprinting/jumping types) should at least try triple jump. Since the women’s event has become established, I have noticed that the UK hardly ever has a representative at age-group champs, and I think that is largely because a lot of athletes who may have the potential to do well at it never even try it. It does seem to me that other countries’ top long jumpers are more likely to have a TJ PB on their stats than ours.

    I think this issue now also applies on the male side where we also have relatively few championship performers at age-group level. It does seem surprising that relatively few athletes have been inspired to try and emulate the likes of Edwards, Idowu and Connor. Perhaps that is setting the bar quite high as all of these were the best in the world for at least one year, but it would be nice to see someone new at least reach the level of an Achike, a Herbert, a Moore or an Alsop.

    Great Britain got a dose of good fortune in the 90’s and early to mid-200’s when, on the men’s side, a slew of truly world class triple jumpers came through at roughly the same time – Edwards emerging in the 90’s, then Idowu and Achike in the 2000’s, then Douglas arriving during Idowu’s dominance of the event (though ultimately, his true potential was never realized due to injury).
    And we had Ashia Hansen on the women’s side coming along roughly at the same time as Edwards, though she massively under-achieved at the World and Olympic stage.

    After all of these athletes retired (apart from ol’ man Douglas!), there hasn’t been anybody in either gender who has really come through to any sort of prominence.
    The closet to any sort of talent to come through on the men’s side are probably Ben Williams, former World Youth TJ champion all the way back in 2009, who has been dogged by persistent knee injuries pretty much ever since and he has yet to jump over 17 meters. And Nathan Fox, again another talented jumper who has suffered significant injuries that have curtailed his development.

    On the women’s side, ever since Hansen retired it has been pretty much a wasteland, having to rely on a well-past her prime Aldama to get UK citizenship to try and fill in the gaping hole in our talent pool. There was a brief glimmer from Laura Samuel after her surprise silver medal at the 2014 Commonwealth Games, but she’s not been able to kick on since then as we all hoped.
    Is Naomi Ogbeta going to be the answer? Maybe.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  RunUnlimited.
    #97647

    Justrunfast
    Participant

    The Sawyers comments are nonsense, because of her size she needs to be super fast on the runway and have a supreme takeoff which she had as a junior. This has got worse, as junior she looked liked with slight improvements she could get to 6.90.

    Great take off and extremely fast on the runway, she needs get back to this! If she currently was jumping like this and hadn’t improved I’d agree but she isn’t. I’d also like to see her try a different technique off board. Hang would suit her runway so much.

    People wondering why more don’t take up Triple Jump….
    1. It absolutely wrecks your body
    2. Leg length + speed is a huge performance indicator
    3. It’s extremely difficult if you haven’t been used to putting your body through the sort of training from a young age.
    4. Womens TJ is ok on a whole but medals wise you gotta jump 14.80+ Rojas and Ibarguen are consistently going out there.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Justrunfast.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  Justrunfast.
    #97650

    Justrunfast
    Participant

    So the better question is do we see any of the women we currently have jumping 14.80+?

    Do we think Sawyers can? If not she’s going to be in the exact same position

    #97652

    Richard
    Participant
    So the better question is do we see any of the women we currently have jumping 14.80+?

    I can think of one with the potential. 6ft tall, long legs, light upper body. Natural jumper – already good at the other sandpit event and not bad at the vertical. Has done the TJ once in a club match years ago and, presumably off the back of no event specific training, knocked out 13.35w and 12.83 legal. Some may think that she should be looking to change event.

    #97653

    SteveK26
    Participant

    LOL

    KJT?

    #97659

    james
    Participant

    I have said this before, and I’ll say it again, that if we are looking for a female triple jumper than we could do worse than look to other sports, in this case, gymnastics… Participants are well versed in putting together complex moves, some of their disciplines require a good burst of speed and having trained from a young age, perhaps their physiology is more robust to face the rigours of the event’s training… I would imagine there are plenty of former gymnasts, perhaps out grown the sport and looking for a new challenge…

    but this would require a proactive, talent ID programme, which UK athletics have never bothered with..

    #97682

    Justrunfast
    Participant

    Gymnastics? Nah wanna know where all our tall, agile, strong women are? All playing Netball! I know three who currently play for england who were english schools finalists just on talent alone. Probably loads more who have never graced a track but now the game of Netball has a professional league as well as national team we have no chance.

    Athletics is so far behind other sports it’s turning into a joke. Until it stops being a quest for 5-7 medals nothing will change.

    #97683

    james
    Participant

    you make a good point justrunfast, about netball, which was a highlight of the commonwealth games for me. (I can still name the team from my year at school, from the early 80s!] and I dont disagree… I was thinking about the female gymnasts who have grown too tall, perhaps, but have that background in gymnastics that would allow them very quickly to put together the hop, skip and jump, to run at a given point and launch themselves, et al, it just fits!

    in any event my wider point is that there is very little talent ID drawing in from other sports, let alone encouraging athletes to try different events (though I think I heard Cram/Radcliffe mention that there was a scheme to get endurance runners trying the steeplechase)

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  james.
    #97689

    james
    Participant
    Gymnastics? Nah wanna know where all our tall, agile, strong women are? All playing Netball! I know three who currently play for england who were english schools finalists just on talent alone. Probably loads more who have never graced a track but now the game of Netball has a professional league as well as national team we have no chance.

    Athletics is so far behind other sports it’s turning into a joke. Until it stops being a quest for 5-7 medals nothing will change.

    I have been saying more or lss that for along time and met with the usual stuff on this site… calling me a out as a terrible moaning pessimist etc etc.

    Glad you are beginning to realise the un-varnished truth that the powers that run the sport plus the lack of money and the bloody hard graft to get to the top means that you will see very few great athletes around this country over the next decades and as for field events .. 🙁 what can one say.

    #97698

    Justrunfast
    Participant

    @philipo

    Your sentiments are echoed by many who have been in our sport for decades the sport literally on it’s last legs, all because the powers that be won’t innovate and base our sport around an event that happens every four years.

    #97703

    Richard
    Participant
    People wondering why more don’t take up Triple Jump….
    1. It absolutely wrecks your body

    It is certainly very tough on the body. However, for me that is a reason to not take it up if you are doing very well in another event rather than a valid excuse to never give it a try in the first place.

    Despite the wear and tear element there are quite a few examples of TJers with long careers e.g Edwards, Aldama, Banks (who has set Master’s records) & Saneyev (3 OG gold & 1 silver).

    #97705

    Richard
    Participant

    Oprea and Markov (or at least his hair) seemed to be around for ever.

    Evora’s another sandpit methuselah – 17.04 this year, 12 years after he first cracked 17. OG medals stretching over 8 years and WC medals extending over 10.

    #981571

    james
    Participant

    I took a look a the athletes on ‘Olympic Poduim’ funding for 2017/8 and note with interest the following comments

    Olympic Podium (15):

    Dina Asher-Smith (John Blackie) – worthy of funding but will have to be on top of her game to win a medal in 2020
    Holly Bradshaw (Scott Simpson) – mentioned her in my long comment on another thread … has the ability to win a medal but needs to win the battle of the mind.
    Mo Farah (Gary Lough) – at what point does an athlete’s income from other sources, negate the need for actual financial support from the governing body?
    Adam Gemili (Rana Reider) – lovely lad, don’t begrudge him funding, I just don’t think he will make 200 cut for UK team, but hope he will remain an integral part of relay.
    Robbie Grabarz (Fuzz Caan) – when the governing body decide who gets funding, do they actually discuss the athletes intentions? Now he has retired, do they get to keep the money?
    Callum Hawkins (Robert Hawkins) – a great talent, he will learn from the CG but don’t see him on podium come 2020
    Sophie Hitchon (Tore Gustafsson) – Has the ability to be on podium
    Zharnel Hughes (Glen Mills) – sorry, I don’t get excited about him, and I take a rather dim view of his CG final…
    Katarina Johnson-Thompson (Bertrand Valcin) – oh KJT, the fairy tale could be that it all comes together
    Nick Miller (Tore Gustafsson) – needs to find consistency but it’s an event where you just need one big throw.
    Laura Muir (Andy Young) – our only world class runner? discuss 🙂
    Cindy Ofili – injured, and I’d be amazed if she makes the podium.
    Greg Rutherford (Dan Pfaff) – I just don’t see him making 2020 let alone podium – has been a great servant to UK athletics, and I’ve said many times, he will be doing the minor celebrity TV thing for years to come…
    Lynsey Sharp (Terrance Mahon) – past her best and might not even make 2020
    Lorraine Ugen (Shawn Jackson) – her stock has risen since her last leg efforts at the CG, with this new found belief she might surprise us all…

    Don’t get me started on my view about there being more Paralympians on ‘Podium’ level…

    #981601

    james
    Participant

    good to see a fine performance by Alex Bell breaking to respectability with 1.59.93; confidence from her 5th in CG perhaps.
    Hitchon matches her male counterpart with more inconsistency yesterday with 68.74 in Halle. Her excuse in the CG was about a new technique being tried; Mmmmm!

    #984301

    james
    Participant

    I am a fan of Desiree Henry – and I noted that she is due to run at the FBK Games today, where the entry , in the 200m, suggests she has a SB of 22.69, which might have missed the attention of the power of ten, as she seemed to have spent a month in China (there is a link on her twitter) … I wish her well and an injury free season and some good performances…

    with a unexpected return to form by Jodie Williams, by me at least as I was hoping she would be giving 400 a crack, and a scottish record by Beth Dobbin, its looking like a very interesting event for the year. I would add Finette Agyapong to the mix and DASsher obviously, and how I wish KJT would turn up for a 200, just making a final of the trials might need sub 23, with Shannon Hylton and Bianca Williams looking vulnerable..

    #984381

    james
    Participant
    I took a look a the athletes on ‘Olympic Poduim’ funding for 2017/8 and note with interest the following comments

    Olympic Podium (15):

    Dina Asher-Smith (John Blackie) – worthy of funding but will have to be on top of her game to win a medal in 2020
    Holly Bradshaw (Scott Simpson) – mentioned her in my long comment on another thread … has the ability to win a medal but needs to win the battle of the mind.
    Mo Farah (Gary Lough) – at what point does an athlete’s income from other sources, negate the need for actual financial support from the governing body?
    Adam Gemili (Rana Reider) – lovely lad, don’t begrudge him funding, I just don’t think he will make 200 cut for UK team, but hope he will remain an integral part of relay.
    Robbie Grabarz (Fuzz Caan) – when the governing body decide who gets funding, do they actually discuss the athletes intentions? Now he has retired, do they get to keep the money?
    Callum Hawkins (Robert Hawkins) – a great talent, he will learn from the CG but don’t see him on podium come 2020
    Sophie Hitchon (Tore Gustafsson) – Has the ability to be on podium
    Zharnel Hughes (Glen Mills) – sorry, I don’t get excited about him, and I take a rather dim view of his CG final…
    Katarina Johnson-Thompson (Bertrand Valcin) – oh KJT, the fairy tale could be that it all comes together
    Nick Miller (Tore Gustafsson) – needs to find consistency but it’s an event where you just need one big throw.
    Laura Muir (Andy Young) – our only world class runner? discuss 🙂
    Cindy Ofili – injured, and I’d be amazed if she makes the podium.
    Greg Rutherford (Dan Pfaff) – I just don’t see him making 2020 let alone podium – has been a great servant to UK athletics, and I’ve said many times, he will be doing the minor celebrity TV thing for years to come…
    Lynsey Sharp (Terrance Mahon) – past her best and might not even make 2020
    Lorraine Ugen (Shawn Jackson) – her stock has risen since her last leg efforts at the CG, with this new found belief she might surprise us all…

    Don’t get me started on my view about there being more Paralympians on ‘Podium’ level…

    Largely agree and we all know the paucity of world class athletes in the UK if one wishes to be realistic.Laura and DAS and Mo in the Marathon??
    Laura is world class but I do not believe, as is well known that she will be a medallist in Tokyo. A brave athlete but her front running style doesn’t work, her tactics have been found wanting, and she does not possess the super fast finish over the last 100/150 to medal ,imo. Wonder if she will go for the 5k in Tokyo.
    This year our best athletes will find it tough in Berlin and there will be nothing like the plethora of Goldies there that we have had in earlier times
    When I mentioned previously about 9/10 goldies in two previous Euros and received some weird post about how much better our athletes are at the moment.
    I realise that I am going to be told about the World indoors and Gold coast but that is slightly a red herring because we underperformed anyway in April.
    Nothing much excites about UK track and field and the DL and other meets are and will confirm this in my view.
    So far in the last few weeks I have not observed anything to make me feel confident for the July/August period.

    Gemili is a disappointment looking back to his performances Zurich in shit weather.But I suppose his near medals in other globals might mean if he could stop being injured we could see him at the top again.

    Prescod seems very talented with a good finish, but we had another global 100m finalist some few years ago and he is very much out of the picture now.. So I remain hopeful but no more at this time.

    #984401

    james
    Participant

    thanks for your response, Philipo, beginning to think I wasn’t in some strange parallel universe, then Henry runs a disappointing time and I’m back to reality…

    #984411

    jjimbojames
    Participant
    with a unexpected return to form by Jodie Williams, by me at least as I was hoping she would be giving 400 a crack

    To be honest, I still think she should – at her best, she’s just about making a global 200m final. Her 100m times aren’t anywhere near quick enough (11.5 this weekend and losing to the people she beat over 200m) – but carry that speed over to the 400m and she could be well under 50 seconds. I think Beth should also move up.

    I’d like to see what someone like Neita can do over 200m – she hasn’t run one in years – injury or choice?

    #984441

    Matt
    Participant

    It is probably a good year to be a female 200m runner at the trials as DAS has a free place at the Euros due to being the champion and that leaves 3 spaces as we are therefore allowed to have 4 runners.

    I would say that any of J Williams, B Williams, Dobbin, S Hylton, Henry, Agyapong, Pipi (if she doesn’t go for the 400m) or Bruney (though she hasn’t looked great recently) could take the places. Not sure any of them bar DAS will get near a medal though unless they can drop below 22.50 and none of them have a quick enough 100m time to suggest they might do that (bar Henry and she is coming back from injury).

    Interesting that DAS has been running a lot of 100m races, I wonder if she is considering doubling up at the Euros as she won’t need to run the 200m at the trials. The way the Euros is structured this year means that if you are in the top 12 times (and DAS will definitely be in those for both 100m and 200m) then you technically only have to run the semi and the finals. I would see her getting a medal in both if she did.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Matt.
    #984471

    james
    Participant
    I am a fan of Desiree Henry – and I noted that she is due to run at the FBK Games today, where the entry , in the 200m, suggests she has a SB of 22.69, which might have missed the attention of the power of ten, as she seemed to have spent a month in China (there is a link on her twitter) … I wish her well and an injury free season and some good performances…

    with a unexpected return to form by Jodie Williams, by me at least as I was hoping she would be giving 400 a crack, and a scottish record by Beth Dobbin, its looking like a very interesting event for the year. I would add Finette Agyapong to the mix and DASsher obviously, and how I wish KJT would turn up for a 200, just making a final of the trials might need sub 23, with Shannon Hylton and Bianca Williams looking vulnerable..

    Lets bear in mind that the last decent year Jodie had was 2014 when she also ran a decent 400m in mid 52s;
    I am sceptical whether she will ever rach the heights that we expected when she was World Junior champ and proceeded to underperform, apart from 2014, which is pretty much the course for our great junior talents.
    By the way young Somers in the 200m is likely to be another disappearing talent.

    #984481

    james
    Participant

    with a unexpected return to form by Jodie Williams, by me at least as I was hoping she would be giving 400 a crack

    To be honest, I still think she should – at her best, she’s just about making a global 200m final. Her 100m times aren’t anywhere near quick enough (11.5 this weekend and losing to the people she beat over 200m) – but carry that speed over to the 400m and she could be well under 50 seconds. I think Beth should also move up.

    I’d like to see what someone like Neita can do over 200m – she hasn’t run one in years – injury or choice?

    If Jodie Williams runs under 50 or 51 for that matter I will promise never to post on this site for at least 18 months.!!

    #984711

    jjimbojames
    Participant

    Don’t get me wrong – I’m not saying this year, just that she has the speed base to do it. She ran a mid-51 relay leg that was not pretty and showed her inexperience a few years ago, which makes me think there is potential. UKA clearly thought she could be of use in the 4×4 but stopped after that race, which seems stupid, given we aren’t overflowing with top-level 400m talent these days

    #984721

    dave
    Participant

    I took a look a the athletes on ‘Olympic Poduim’ funding for 2017/8 and note with interest the following comments

    Olympic Podium (15):

    Dina Asher-Smith (John Blackie) – worthy of funding but will have to be on top of her game to win a medal in 2020
    Holly Bradshaw (Scott Simpson) – mentioned her in my long comment on another thread … has the ability to win a medal but needs to win the battle of the mind.
    Mo Farah (Gary Lough) – at what point does an athlete’s income from other sources, negate the need for actual financial support from the governing body?
    Adam Gemili (Rana Reider) – lovely lad, don’t begrudge him funding, I just don’t think he will make 200 cut for UK team, but hope he will remain an integral part of relay.
    Robbie Grabarz (Fuzz Caan) – when the governing body decide who gets funding, do they actually discuss the athletes intentions? Now he has retired, do they get to keep the money?
    Callum Hawkins (Robert Hawkins) – a great talent, he will learn from the CG but don’t see him on podium come 2020
    Sophie Hitchon (Tore Gustafsson) – Has the ability to be on podium
    Zharnel Hughes (Glen Mills) – sorry, I don’t get excited about him, and I take a rather dim view of his CG final…
    Katarina Johnson-Thompson (Bertrand Valcin) – oh KJT, the fairy tale could be that it all comes together
    Nick Miller (Tore Gustafsson) – needs to find consistency but it’s an event where you just need one big throw.
    Laura Muir (Andy Young) – our only world class runner? discuss 🙂
    Cindy Ofili – injured, and I’d be amazed if she makes the podium.
    Greg Rutherford (Dan Pfaff) – I just don’t see him making 2020 let alone podium – has been a great servant to UK athletics, and I’ve said many times, he will be doing the minor celebrity TV thing for years to come…
    Lynsey Sharp (Terrance Mahon) – past her best and might not even make 2020
    Lorraine Ugen (Shawn Jackson) – her stock has risen since her last leg efforts at the CG, with this new found belief she might surprise us all…

    Don’t get me started on my view about there being more Paralympians on ‘Podium’ level…

    Largely agree and we all know the paucity of world class athletes in the UK if one wishes to be <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>realistic.Laura</span> and DAS and Mo in the Marathon??
    Laura is world class but I do not believe, as is well known that she will be a medallist in Tokyo. A brave athlete but her front running style doesn’t work, her tactics have been found wanting, and she does not possess the super fast finish over the last 100/150 to medal ,imo. Wonder if she will go for the 5k in Tokyo.
    This year our best athletes will find it tough in Berlin and there will be nothing like the plethora of Goldies there that we have had in earlier times
    When I mentioned previously about 9/10 goldies in two previous Euros and received some weird post about how much better our athletes are at the moment.
    I realise that I am going to be told about the World indoors and Gold coast but that is slightly a red herring because we underperformed anyway in April.
    Nothing much excites about UK track and field and the DL and other meets are and will confirm this in my view.
    So far in the last few weeks I have not observed anything to make me feel confident for the July/August period.

    Gemili is a disappointment looking back to his performances Zurich in shit <span class=”skimlinks-unlinked”>weather.But</span> I suppose his near medals in other globals might mean if he could stop being injured we could see him at the top again.

    Prescod seems very talented with a good finish, but we had another global 100m finalist some few years ago and he is very much out of the picture now.. So I remain hopeful but no more at this time.

    the usual negative rant from you i see

    this european champs could easily be the best ever in terms of medals and gold medals, we have plenty of gold medal chances and numerous events were we could get silver and bronze

    the only track events where we dont have athletes in the top 3 in the rankings are the mens 5000, 10000, 400 m hurdles and 50 k race walk and womens 400, 5000, 10000, marathon, 100 hurdles, so that gives us 21 events where we are currently in with a chance of a medal with numerous opportunities for multiiple medals in some events, add in the likes of mccolgan, yee, weightman, butchart and a few others coming back from injury , improving and rediscovering form and we have some medal chances in those other events too

    field events are poorer but we should have medal chances in the mens and womens long jump, mens and womens hammer, womens high jump, pole vault and hepthathlon too

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