This topic contains 13 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Lisa 3 weeks ago.

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  • #58563

    Anonymous

    Van Niekirk’s WR of last year now stands as the fifth highest scored male WR (according to IAAF Result Score. Behind only Jelezny’s jav, Bolt’s 100 and 200 and Mike Powell’s LJ). In regard to Powell he shouldn’t even have the record. Ivan Pedroso broke that record in 1995, but the Italians robbed him of a ratification in an anti-Castro political move.

    Does anyone have any disagreement with this scoring system? Or think that other records should be higher?

    For the women, Dibaba and Ayana’s WRs are each top ten, but not top five.

    The highest score of them all is Gabriele Reinsch, discus. Her WR, set in ’88, is so absurd it is actually a longer distance than the men’s discus WR. Amazingly, it is not even the third furthest women’s discus throw ever. Her teammate, Martina Hellmann, threw three longer throws at a mini meet that same year, but the throws were not ratified.

    #58572

    SteveK26
    Participant

    Sadly there are so many dodgy world records on the books it becomes impossible to have a debate of this nature.

    #58592

    david
    Participant

    Darkside
    The IAAF issued new tables for all events, with minor changes from the previous edition, early this year. Looking at all the events together might prompt some reactions. Interesting that the field events do well in M & W, while the walks are at the bottom in M & W. Neither M or W MAR is in the top 12.

    MEN More than one voice has very highly rated Zelezny and Bolt and looking at how the LJ has evolved Powell’s effort (not withstanding poor Pedroso) must be seen as outstanding. And the new boy on the block Niekerk – is there more to come? Bolt’s 400r team is the only 1 of 4 relays (M & W) in the top 12
    – neither 800 M&W not stch M&W make the top 12
    – only Ayana’s 10000 makes the top 12 in the M&W 5000 / 10000 events
    – niether M DEC nor C21st W HEP make the top 12.

    Steve
    Yes it seems to much agreed that certainly some WRs still standing of the 80s even 90s are drug-related, so I’ve created a list of C21st ‘WRs’ for events that don’t have their WR in the C21st. I’ve made a few personal decisions about cutting out certain athletes who have a history of C21st drug abuse.

    M official WRS
    top 12: 3 sprint events, 1 MD event, 7 field events, 1 relay
    13-24: 3 MD, 1 LD, 2 hurdle events, 1 stch, 1 field event, 1 DEC, 1 relay, 2 walks

    event ——- WR ——- name country — date —— points – 1400pts
    M
    1 JT —— 98 48 Zelezny CZE — 25 05 96 — 1365 100.90
    2 100 —– 9 58 Bolt JAM —– 16 08 09 — 1356 9.46
    3 200 —— 19 19 Bolt JAM —– 20 08 09 — 1351 18.90
    4 LJ ——- 8 95 Powell USA —- 30 08 91 — 1346 9.19
    5 400 —— 43.03 Niekerk RSA — 14 08 16 — 1321 41.97
    6 DT —— 74 08 Schult GER —- 06 06 86 — 1320 78.39
    7 400r —– 36 84 JAM ———— 11 08 12 — 1318 35.84
    8 HJ —— 2 45 Solomayor CUB-27 07 93 — 1314 2.54
    9 PV —— 6.16 Lavillenie FRA – 15 02 14 — 1311 6.48
    10 SP —– 23 12 Simmons USA — 20 05 90 — 1308 24.66
    11 TJ —— 18 29 Edwards GBR — 07 08 95 — 1303 19.19
    12 1500 — 3 26 00 Guerrouj MAR – 14 07 98 — 1302 3.19.44

    13 800 —- 1.40.91 Rudisha KEN — 09 08 12 — 1301 1.37.91
    14 HT —- 86 74 Sedykh CIS —- 30 08 86 — 1298 93.30
    15 400h — 46 78 Young USA —– 06 08 92 — 1296 44.86
    16 10000 – 26 17 53 Bekele ETH —- 26 08 05 — 1295 25.15.44
    17= 5000 – 12 37 35 Bekele ETH —- 01 06 04 — 1294 12.10.09
    17= 110h – 12 80 Merritt USA —- 07 09 12 — 1294 12.28
    19 MAR — 2.02.57 Kimetto KEN — 28 09 14 — 1291 1.57.18
    20 DEC — 9045 Eaton USA —— 29 08 15 — 1289 9747
    21 st ch — 7 53 63 Shaheen QAT — 03 09 04 — 1288 7.30.46
    22 1600r — 2 54 29 USA ————– 22 08 93 — 1281 2.47.10
    23 50k w – 3.32.33 Diniz, FRA —— 15 08 14 — 1269 3.12.06
    24 20k w – 1.16.36 Suzuki JPN —— 15 03 15 — 1266 1.10.45

    C21st
    ev-posn
    DT 2 73.88 Virgilijus Alekna LTU 3 Aug 00 — 1316
    LJ 5 8.74+1.2 Dwight Phillips USA 7 Jun 09 — 1300
    HJ 2 2.43 Mutaz Essa Barshim QAT 5 Sep 14 — 1296
    TJ 2 18.21+0.2 Christian Taylor USA 27 Aug 15 — 1294
    JT 3 92.72 Julius Yego KEN 26 Aug 15 — 1283
    SP 6 22.67 Kevin Toth USA 19 Apr 03 — 1281
    400h 7 47.24 Kerron Clement USA 26 Jun 05 — 1271
    HT 3 84.90 Vadim Devyatovski BLR 21 Jul 05 — 1270
    1600r – 2:55.39 USA 23 08 08 — 1264

    W official WRS
    top 12: 3 sprint events, 2 MD events, 6 field events, 1 HEP
    13-24: 2 MD, 1 LD, 2 hurdle events, 1 stch, 2 field event, 2 relays, 2 walks

    event ——- WR ——- name country ——– date ——- pts – 1400pts
    W
    1 DT — 76 80 Rheinisch GER —– 09 07 88 — 1382 77.74
    2 SP — 22 63 Lisovskaya CIS —– 07 06 87 — 1372 23.07
    3 LJ — 7 52 Chistiakova CIS —– 11 06 88 — 1333 7.82
    4 HEP — 7291 J-Kersee USA ——- 24 09 88 — 1331 7635
    5 100 — 10 49 G-Joyner USA —— 16 07 88 — 1314 10.12
    6 HJ — 2 09 Kostadinova BUL — 30 08 87 — 1309 2.18
    7 200 — 21 34 G-Joyner USA —— 29 09 88 — 1308 20.51
    8 JT — 72 28 Spotakova CZE —– 13 09 08 — 1306 77.29
    9 400 — 47 60 Koch GER ———- 06 10 85 — 1304 45.35
    10 HT — 82.98 Wlodarczyk POL — 28 08 16 — 1303 88.89
    11= 1500 – 3.50.07 Dibaba ETH ——— 17 07 15 — 1287 3.36.77
    11= 10000-29.17.45 Ayana ETH ———- 12 08 16 — 1287 27.20.35

    13 800 — 1 53 28 Kratochvilova TCH – 26 07 83 — 1286 1.47.35
    14= MAR-2 15 25 Radcliffe GBR ——- 13 04 03 — 1281 2.04.20
    14= PV — 5 06 Isibayeva RUS ——- 28 08 09 — 1281 5.41
    16 400r — 40 82 USA —– —– —— 10 08 12 — 1273 38.04
    17 1600r — 3 15 17 CIS —– —– ——- 01 10 88 — 1267 3.00.61
    18 stch — 8.52.78 Jebet BRN ———- 27 08 16 — 1263 8.01.31
    19 100h — 12.20 Harrison USA ——- 22 07 16 — 1261 11.24
    20 5000 — 14 11 15 Dibaba ETH ——— 06 06 08 — 1260 13.03.68
    21 400h — 52 34 Pechonkina RUS —- 08 08 03 — 1257 48.07
    22 TJ —— 15 50 Kravets UKR ——- 10 08 95 — 1254 16.73
    23 20k w – 1.24.38 Liu CHN —– —— 06 06 15 — 1233 1.15.47
    24 50k w – 4 08 26 Henriques POR —– 15 01 17 — 1229 3.40.25

    C21st
    ev-posn
    HJ 2 2.08 Blanka Vlašić CRO 31 Aug 09 — 1299
    LJ 9 7.31+1.7 Brittney Reese USA 2 Jul 16 — 1287
    SP 23 21.24 Valerie Adams NZL 29 Aug 11 — 1285
    100 2 10.64-1.2 Carmelita Jeter USA 20 Sep 09 — 1280
    Hep 2 7032 Carolina Klüft SWE 26 Aug 07 — 1279
    200 3 21.63+0.2 Dafne Schippers NED 28 Aug 15 — 1277
    DT 18 71.08 Sandra Perković CRO 16 Aug 14 — 1276
    800 3 1:54.01 Pamela Jelimo KEN 29 Aug 08 — 1272
    TJ 2 15.39+0.5 Françoise Mbango CMR 17 Aug 08 — 1260
    400 7 48.70 Sanya Richards-Ross USA 16 Sep 06 — 1258
    1600r – 3:16.87 USA 11 08 12 — 1252

    LJ (5 7.42+2.0 Tatyana Kotova RUS 23 Jun 02 druggie ’05 & ’06)
    LJ (7.33+0.4 Tatyana Lebedeva RUS 31 Jul 04 druggie ’08)
    SP (12 21.58 Nadzeya Ostapchuk BLR 18 Jul 12 repeated druggie incl aug’12)
    SP (17 21.46 Larisa Peleshenko RUS 26 Aug 00 4yr druggie 95-99)

    #58601

    Anonymous

    The top seven women’s WRs were all set prior to random testing. If those are removed then the top five becomes
    Spotakova
    Wlodarczyk
    Genzebe
    Ayana
    Radcliffe

    None of the Result Scores from any of the events that would replace the marks that are being removed would top these.

    #58603

    Anonymous

    In my subjective opinion the most impressive overall to me would be

    1. Bolt 100m
    2. Bolt 200m
    3. Genzebe 1500m
    4. Ayana 10K
    5. Pedroso LJ

    The reason I punish Zelezny and Spotakova is it’s just so hard to determine if those javelin throws weren’t the beneficiary of high wind. It’s impossible to measure without knowing. I also remove all marks set prior to random tests. The same reason all marks set prior to FAT are no longer recognized. Inadequacy in recording procedures. Also, there is no excuse for Pedroso’s omission. That record needs to be ratified

    #58629

    Richard
    Participant

    By that logic you should also discount or re-rank Bolt’s 100 as he had a helpful, albeit measured, tailwind. Ditto for Pedroso as the disputed wind was measured at +1.2 and believed to be much more.

    Most WRs are set when everything aligns and that includes helpful weather conditions. As far as the spear is concerned a strong wind is often more of a hinderance than a help and there is a real art in flighting the spear to suit the conditions.

    Zelezny’s at the top of the pile for me. No-one else has been within 2.5 metres of his previous WR, let alone the current 21 year old one. Someone will break it one day, but they may not have been born yet. That said I was massively impressed by Neeraj Chopra’s WJR. Not so much the huge distance, more that his technique, dynamism and arm speed reminded me a little of the great man.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Richard.
    #58649

    Anonymous
    Ditto for Pedroso as the disputed wind was measured at +1.2 and believed to be much more.

    More? Haha! What a joke. The Italians excuse for not ratifying that record is one of the lamest things I’ve ever heard. They claim the anemometer was “blocked”. If so it would not have any reading at all. As it stands you have a jump that is a legal result to this day, but no world record, despite being the longest long jump ever.

    And btw, the video shows clearly there was no one standing anywhere near the anemometer when Pedroso jumped.

    #78538

    Gavin
    Participant
    #78678

    david
    Participant

    LuckySpikes
    Thanks for drawing attention to the article.

    Meanwhile interesting to see, indoors admittedly, that Coleman has twice beaten the men’s 60m WR (if once with no testing for drugs). Not that I am thinking he will challenge Bolts 100 outdoor WR of 9.58, but doubtless he’ll want to up his 9.82 PB (9th all-time list).

    So which current WRs (oldest first) might be vulnerable this year outdoors
    – M HJ or has Barsham already peaked?
    – M Mar and one might name more than one athlete
    – M 400 Niekerk rose so fast, so is there more to come?
    – W 5000 will Ayana, Dibaba or Obiri gain the WR here?
    – W PV Morris might or the emerging Nageotte
    – W 100H is very hot at the moment
    – W HT just think Wlodarczyk
    – W 50kmW a very new ‘official’ event so vulnerable
    – M or W event ? a surprise WR in our wonderful sport

    – M SP a special mention: perhaps we’ll not see a WR, but perhaps Crouser (5th) & Kovacs (7th) climbing up a slot or two in the all-time list

    Meanwhile enjoy the person-to-person great combats

    #78775

    Gavin
    Participant

    dpickup, It’s always fun to speculate/predict so here goes …

    How about the Men’s Javelin & Triple Jump too? Vetter & Rohler are not particularly close to the WR but it’s the kind of event where if you get the perfect day and nail a throw, anything can happen.

    Below, I’ve ranked these & the events you listed in order of the likelihood I think the WR will be broken in 2018.

    The percentage chances, even for Wlodarczyk, are low because World Records are very hard to break and there’s always the chance of injury.

    30-40% chance
    1. W Hammer – the further Wlodarczyk sets the record the harder it becomes to break, but she’ll surely have a good chance to add a few more cm.

    25-30% chance
    2. W 50km Walk
    – like you say, surely there’s more to come. No global championships this year but they will be racing 50km with the men at the RW Team Champs in China in May, an event that’s always taken very seriously.

    10-20% chance
    3. W 100 Hurdles
    – with the return of Rollins this year there would seem to be 3 or 4 Americans who could at least get very close.
    4. W 5000 – It’s well within the compass of Ayana & Obiri on the right day. Would a head-to-head help or hinder the WR? A couple of years ago in Paris, Ayana vs Dibaba became a cagey affair. It’s not Dibaba’s best event so I’m ruling her out for the WR. She’s had 2 or 3 attempts which fell significantly short.

    5-10% chance
    5. M Marathon
    – Kipchoge would be the obvious contender but given, in all likelihood, just 2 opportunities to do it, the chances are low. Having said that, there’s a few others in the 2:03’s who could also spring a new record.

    1-5% chance
    6. M Javelin
    – for the reasons I mentioned above
    7. M Triple Jump – might Christian Taylor be freed up by not having a global championship this year? Perhaps he’ll try again at altitude?

    < 1% chance
    8. M Shot Put
    – very competitive at the moment but it’s still a huge leap (throw) to get to 23.12
    9. M High Jump – I think 2014 was the time to do this for Barshim when he had a big challenge from Bondarenko. With less fierce competition it’ll be even harder to find that extra couple of cm.
    10. M 400 – The ‘recent’ history of the 400 WR is that an athlete has that one absolutely stellar WR or Olympic performance in their career (e.g., Reynolds, S Lewis, Watts & Johnson prior) but can’t better it again. Maybe 43.03 is as fast as Van Niekirk goes? Also, there’s doubts about whether his injury will slow him. Fred Kerley might be the one to take it but I very much doubt it happens this year.
    11 W Pole Vault – great as these ladies are it’s still a long way to 5.06. The law of averages says that Nageotte surely can’t add 30cm to her PB in 1 year? Morris seems to have lost her edge a bit and Stefanidi, whilst being a winning machine, still hasn’t worried 5 metres.

    However, I’ll be happy to be proven wrong on any of those that I’ve virtually dismissed!

    #78851

    david
    Participant

    LuckSpikes
    – M TJ I waited in 2016 for Taylor (18.21 ’15) & Pichardo (18.08 ’15) to make another stunning breakthrough, but it wasn’t to be, with Pichardo ‘disappearing’, though last year Taylor did a fine 18.11. As you say perhaps a 1-5% chance here

    – M JT Zelezny has many high ranked throws but as you say many have just one great throw and is that to be the case with Vetter & Rohler & Yego …

    – W PV ‘still a long way off 5.06’: your comment prompted me to think about Lavillenie in the M PV, his 6.16 in is 11cm higher than his next best performance. A bit like the JT perhaps …

    I’m not a betting man but your ‘chance’ figures get my tick.

    #80673

    Gavin
    Participant
    … Morris seems to have lost her edge a bit …

    4.95 to win the WIC. LOL, it seems I may have got that a bit wrong!

    #10446511

    Gavin
    Participant

    With the season drawing to a close, look at how things can change so much in just 7 months!

    We’ve had 2 outdoor WRs since then – the women’s 50km RW (expected) and the women’s 3000SC (not sure that anyone had Beatrice Chepkoech or anyone else down for that 7 months ago).

    But, it’s in the men’s events where a few WRs have started to look vulnerable that we didn’t even consider earlier in the year …

    Probably the most likely looking:
    M 400H: Samba 46.98 and Benjamin 47.02 have both burst into Kevin Young’s rear-view mirror

    Less likely but looking less out of reach than at the start of the year:
    M 800: Emmanuel Korir 1:42.05, the fastest time since 2012. He’s said he thinks he can run sub-1:40!
    M 5000: All of a sudden Selemon Barega looks like a contender for a record I thought would never be broken in my lifetime
    M PV: Duplantis? Morgunov? They’re getting up to some heady heights and both have years and years ahead of them

    Also, we should add the W 400H with Sydney McLaughlin running 52.75 but, at the moment, that performance is an outlier for her in a race where she had no pressure.

    #10446611

    Lisa
    Participant

    I don’t know about a WR in the immediate future, but next year’s WC men’s pole vault should be a fab event.

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