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NO MORE WARMUPS !!!!

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NO MORE WARMUPS !!!!

Postby Max » Wed Nov 15, 2006 6:52 pm

According to Wilf Paish warmups are now deemed as being of doubtful value. :shock:

Any comments????

Regards,


Max. :wink:
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Postby Javelin Sam » Thu Nov 16, 2006 11:10 am

The only thing i can think of is that in a day an athlete has only a certain amount of stored energy. obviously there are other short term energy fixes a person can get from drinks or fast breakdown foods before and during an event.

doing a warm up depletes stored energies from the muscles.

When coaching i get my group to do a short warm up consisting of two lap very gentle jog and then 5-10mins of stretching. other stretching is done in rest periods between sets of exercises.

Long warm up's have been detrimental to one of my athletes as it has left him dehydrated when it comes to giving his 110% in the event. of course this can be prevented with proper pre and during hydration but it does also show a point that an excessive warm up drains resources from the body/muscles.
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Postby Jobo » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:15 am

dynamic warm up's have more value as long as the athlete warms up slowly. Stretching before and during sessions does more damage than good, stretching should be done at home as a full session in its own right in my experience.

When you stretch you create small tears in the muscle which you then go and train/compete with.... within 1 hr of competition it is suicidal.

On a warm day you dont warm up as long as on a cold day....

X-C runners do a 5 min warm up and have less injuries per min trained over track athletes in my experience... does this tell ourselves something..

food for thought...
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:58 am

We always do that Jobo 8)

We just limber up before performing! ( a simple term which I suppose means getting your head right , and becoming mobile enough to perform properly.)
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Postby Albert » Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:28 pm

What does he back this statement up with.

Personally I can't believe someone of Wilfs standing would come out with such a nonesensical statement.
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:22 am

Maybe he raised this issue to get athletes and coaches to think about what they do with regrad to warming up....how much is copying others, how much is unproven fashionable rituals etc, over stretching for throwers is a real no no for example. A thought provoking statment I believe!
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Postby Jobo » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:34 am

Albert wrote:What does he back this statement up with.

Personally I can't believe someone of Wilfs standing would come out with such a nonesensical statement.


Maybe he is just telling it as it is...what backs up your theory that a warm up is required other than everybody says you have to do it because thats what we have always done.

I dont mean going in cold to an event (dynamic and short 7 mins with 30mins to go before your event) but I have seen some athletes do it to exhaustion.

Stretching before an event is a no no for all events never mind throws.
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Postby kima » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:46 am

AW had an excellent article on what a proper and effective warmup should be a few months ago. :D
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Postby Fort » Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:39 am

Its made me think as a runner (yes,yes I know even that is unusual) training our juniors, we always do a warm up session before a run. I use that time to watch for loose/ill-fitting shoes, under/overdressed and to try and group similar abilities together. May just have to re-think reasons and timing on that. Right off into the snow we go!
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Postby Smoke » Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:06 am

Only a distance coach would come up with this theory.

The reason LDRs do not get injured as much and do not require such extensive warm up and stretching has more to do with the requirements of the events. Short race are more ballistic, putting the muscles under greater strain.
There is a balance in all of it. Some short sprinters do not stretch extensively (I would say they are the ones that get hurt more also), whereas a quarter miler will warm up thoroughly.
There is also a balance between dynamic and static stretching.
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Postby TheRealSub10 » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:04 pm

I have no doubt that from an evolutionary perspective a warm up is not a prerequisite for a high performance level because the autonomic nervous system has evolved to get us ready for fight or flight in a split second. However, when you train everyday week in week out and are not fully recovered and fresh all of the time then the need for a systematic appraisal of how your body is functioning BEFORE you do you workout is required. What better way to do this than via a warm up?
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Postby Caliode » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:11 pm

Smoke wrote:Only a distance coach would come up with this theory.
If you are referring to Wilf Paish, I think that you have underestimated the span of his experience a little :?
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:46 pm

Paish was producing olympic and international gold medalists in many events
before smoke was born :roll:
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Postby Drum » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:06 pm

jennifer eccles wrote:Paish was producing olympic and international gold medalists in many events
before smoke was born :roll:



Yes and before Smokes time they use to warm up. Everything is becoming too technical now in this country maybe thats a reason why we are in free fall. We seem to be looking at why we are failing and coming up with all kinds of solutions which is just clutching straws. Forget the mollycuddling and get them to work damn hard and we may see improvement.
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Postby Eddie » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:51 pm

I'm not a fan of excessively long or arduous warm ups, but I'm convinced of the value of warming up the whole body especially before speedwork (used relative to the athlete in question).

Three little examples:

we often do two sets of 4 x 200m reps. The second set is often faster than the first. It may be the athletes sensing the end of the session, but I'm convinced the warm up effect of the first set also kicks in.

I train on a Concept Two rowing machine. Despite warming up for 10 mins on an exercise bike and doing 250m fast on the rower, when I do 5 x 500m reps on it, the second rep always feels easier than the first. (warmed up and into the rhythm).

I also train on a turbo trainer bike. Getting on from cold, 25mph is very hard work. After two miles, it is comfortable.
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Postby sleady » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:42 pm

Smoke wrote:Only a distance coach would come up with this theory.

The reason LDRs do not get injured as much and do not require such extensive warm up and stretching has more to do with the requirements of the events. Short race are more ballistic, putting the muscles under greater strain.
There is a balance in all of it. Some short sprinters do not stretch extensively (I would say they are the ones that get hurt more also), whereas a quarter miler will warm up thoroughly.
There is also a balance between dynamic and static stretching.


And only a sprints coach would come up with this! How do you qualify the statement that distance runners don't get injured as much? Knocking out 100 miles a week, probably mainly on roads leads to a greater risk of overuse injuries than sprinters will encounter. Distance runners don't need to warm up as much, but many distance runners use the warm up and down to add a bit of extra mileage. Decent distance runners will also do stretching, drills etc as part of their warm up prior to quality sessions, ie intervals, to ensure that the intervals are done at maximal intensity from the start, as well as to reduce the risk of injury.
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Postby TheRealSub10 » Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:48 am

Drum wrote:Yes and before Smokes time they use to warm up. Everything is becoming too technical now in this country maybe thats a reason why we are in free fall. We seem to be looking at why we are failing and coming up with all kinds of solutions which is just clutching straws. Forget the mollycuddling and get them to work damn hard and we may see improvement.
This is an interesting point. We already know how to set WRs because people have been doing it for years. You can attempt to prove that one way or the other is "scientifically" the best but often these ideas are based on axioms that do not take into account competing factors. Every athlete that has gone before us is a history lesson and in Athletics perhaps history is more important than science?
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Postby Eddie » Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:27 am

Was it Peter Coe who said "An athlete is an experiment of one" ?
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:40 pm

Steady on eddie talk like that could upset UKAs master plan! :lol:
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