BMC Watford

[MatthewFM]

http://www.britishmilersclub.com/bmcsto ... toryid=234

After ten years of the BMC Nike Grand Prix, three British male 800m athletes head the European rankings for the first time for a generation. Lizzie Hall set a British senior 3000m Steeplechase record.

[Eddie]

Sounds like it was a superb meeting. Particular congratulations to all those in the men's 800m A race. Great set of results.

[athletic coach]

The meeting highlighted that whilst all is not well back at the camp, the athletes capably of winning are still there. Adam Bowden showed his development as a steeplechaser, the young world junior qualifiers the list is endless.

I spoke to some of the young athletes that went along and they all said it was a terrific night of atheltics.

My highlight had to be Hayley Yelling winning the 10,000m after the coming second in her last two championship runs.

[Power-of-ten-man]

Perhaps BMC could incorperate the AAA national championships for all the events they cover, some time in August?

[athletic coach]

That's a brilliant idea, they could even put on a "special" evening at Watford in August.

[Eddie]

Videos of the men's 800m A and Women's steeplechase from Watford are at:

http://www.sportuk.tv/pages/athletics/index.html

[sovietvest]

Thanks for the link, Eddie.
A few thoughts:
Is Hill Peter Elliott reincarnated?
Why does Rimmer always wear a t-shirt under his vest?
Is Steve Fennell running this year (he had the edge over Rimmer and Hill last year in the junior ranks)?

How about this for a Trials match-up?:
Hill
Rimmer
Ellis
Lancashire
Watkins
Coltherd
Bayley
McIlroy
Soos
Fennell

When that lot have spent a couple of years deciding who is top dog in the UK (hopefully getting a few pbs in the 1:43 region, in the process) then it'll be time for Mr Rooney to step up in distance.............

Are we finally emerging from our men's Middle Distance nightmare??

[Pelle3]

Is this link still valid?

[Eddie]

Hi

I've just tried the link again and it was still working.

Richard Hill also reminds me of Peter Elliott. I think Michael Rimmer has some sort of "lucky white t-shirt" thing. Great run by both of them. (and the others in the A race)

Is "sovietvest" a Steve Ovett reference?

Eddie

[Albert]

Believe it or not the great Peter Elliot is still alive and well and does'nt need re incarnating thank you very much.

A true South Yorkshireman.Never took a freeride off anyone.

[DMulvee]

I read that the times are invalid due to the pacemaker starting a little ahead of the start line. If you visit www.gbrathletics.co.uk and scroll down to the latest results you find:
Jun 10 Watford - BMC Grand Prix times in 800 race A discounted due to irregular pace making

[aspire]

Blimey what a farce!
How has it only come to light now-surely the track official should have clocked it straight away!
Is it because of video evidence?
Shame as BMC meetings are usually run perfectly. One of the few bright moments in British md running of recent years and the times are wiped out because of an officials error-Frank Horwill must be doing his nut!

[MatthewFM]

I'm told that the starter was happy with the start of the race and that the results stand.

[athletic coach]

spoke to the starter and marksman last night and both concur that eveything ok

[XCrunner]

If a pacer can start at any place on the track, then I presume we will see pacemakers starting at the 500m metre mark and assisting the athletes over the final 300 metres.

Can road race hares start their marathon pace setting at 13 miles?

When and where will this type of nonsense end?

[slowcoach]

Radcliffe ran her 2:15 with a male pace maker, so soon we'll see guys on bikes pulling the likes of Bekele to unbelieveable times.

[eldrick]

i believe the pacer started out ?10m ahead of the pack & presumably ran only the first lap ( as pacers tend to drop out at 400m in 800m races )

the only advantages i can see he provided over a normal pacer are :

- forcing the runners to go a little quicker at the start to catch-up with him ( but this extra energy expenditure is almost certainly have been paid back on the 2nd lap by having extra fatigue in them from lap 1, from having gone initially quicker than they wanted )

- maybe more relevant, the pacer wouda probably gone quicker on the first lap than usual, as he had 10m shorter to run, possibly by about 0.25s ( they in effect obtained a better quality pacer - instead of an expected ?52s initial 400m, they had a pacer more likely taking them thru in ~ 51.75 )

this is fairly negligible & if you really wanted to be pedantic about it, the biggest gain they wouda probably got out of this fiasco is 0.25s, but probably more like nothing

it's still a theoretical advantage though & critics coud argue for the times to be discounted

i don't know, if the runners in that race were given upto a maybe possible 0.25s theoretical advantage, woud you discount their times ?

[athletic coach]

The pacer involved was placed just to the left of the start line for lane 7 and not 10m ahead, see sportuktv website. If he had taken one step to the right he would ahve been behind the line for lane 7.

[eldrick]

my mistake

i didn't check out the vid - on another forum they said the pacer started 10m ahead of the field

[Jon Mulkeen]

If a pacer can start at any place on the track, then I presume we will see pacemakers starting at the 500m metre mark and assisting the athletes over the final 300 metres.

Can road race hares start their marathon pace setting at 13 miles?

When and where will this type of nonsense end?

Interesting point. Exactly what I was thinking.

[daisy]

If a pacer can start at any place on the track, then I presume we will see pacemakers starting at the 500m metre mark and assisting the athletes over the final 300 metres.

Can road race hares start their marathon pace setting at 13 miles?

When and where will this type of nonsense end?

Interesting point. Exactly what I was thinking.

But from what athletics coach say in the post three above, this does not seem to be a good analogy.

[XCrunner]

It depends on the interpretation of IAAF rule 144 "Giving Assistance"

For the purposes of this Rule the following shall be considered as assistance, and therefore not allowed:

(i) pacing in races by persons not participating in the race...

Any athlete giving or receiving assistance from within the competition area during an event shall be cautioned by the Referee and warned that for any repetition, he will be disqualified from that event

An athlete cannot claim to participate in the race if he starts several metres in front of the starting line. The officials should have disqualified the pacemaker.

Unfortunately the officials chose to ignore the Rule and allowed the pace maker to participate in the race and assist the other athletes achieve better times.

It seems that the athletes, coaches, officials, administrators and promoters at this meeting believe that the end justifies the means and Rules can be broken or bent for their event.

[XCrunner]

But from what athletics coach say in the post three above, this does not seem to be a good analogy.

spoke to the starter and marksman last night and both concur that everything ok

The starter and the marksman are deluding themselves and the athletes.

Do they really believe that this bending of the Rules is acceptable in sport?

When athletics degenerates into a manipulation of the Rules with the connivance of the athletes, the officials, the administrators, the promoters and governing bodies, then the ultimate loser is the sport itself.

[athletic coach]

He did not start several metres in front of the start line. See the vid on the tv channel and you will see what happened.

Its over done with and finished.

[XCrunner]

He did not start several metres in front of the start line. See the vid on the tv channel and you will see what happened.

Its over done with and finished.

Yes he did. The camera angle makes measuring the distance difficult but he started in lane six but just behind the lane seven athlete. There are almost four metres between the lane 6 and the lane 7 stagger for 800m starts.

However the distance is irrelevant. The problem is that the officials apparently ignored the Rules and now people just want to sweep the incident under the carpet.

The farcical situation may now occur when the European Athletic Association may reject the performance of the UK athletes who, through no fault of their own, have been put into an impossible situation and do not qualify for other championship races.

[admin]

Hello XCrunner. Your interpretation is not correct. Having heard all views, AW is comfortable that the starter and marksman, both incredibly well respected officials, acted correctly and within the rules, which state that the the start is at the discretion of the starter.

In the interests of the athletes involved, AW would ask that further speculation on this matter now ceases.

[XCrunner]

Hello XCrunner. Your interpretation is not correct. Having heard all views, AW is comfortable that the starter and marksman, both incredibly well respected officials, acted correctly and within the rules, which state that the the start is at the discretion of the starter.

In the interests of the athletes involved, AW would ask that further speculation on this matter now ceases.

Why?

[admin]

Think about how you would feel if you had run your pb in the race? You've been told by UKA that the times are OK, and yet the speculation still continues.

[XCrunner]

Think about how you would feel if you had run your pb in the race? You've been told by UKA that the times are OK, and yet the speculation still continues.

Think how much worse you would feel if you broke a National record using dubious techniques, only to see it disallowed when the record is scrutinised for ratification.

I would feel gutted by the incompetence of the officials, if as a consequence, my time was not recognised.

I would also feel pleased that I could achieve the time and would seek another race to prove or improve my pb.

This discussion has never been about the athletes’ ability to achieve a fast time, or even the pacemaker himself who was put into an invidious position by the officials.

The question is about the ethics of athletics and should officials be allowed to bend the Rules to achieve a particular result? Will a similar situation occur again or have people learnt from this debacle?

The situation does highlight the differences between UKA Rule 21 and IAAF Rule 144

On a more light-hearted note UKA Rule 111 (6) states that competitors must not touch the start line or the ground in front of it with their hands or feet when on the mark.

The IAAF Rule 162 (3 - final sentence) rather ambiguously states that a competitor must not touch the ground with his hands or feet during the start!

[admin]

XCrunner, no rules were broken or even bent. This should be clear from the thread.