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UK Women's 800m

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UK Women's 800m

Postby Flumpy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:03 pm

What a bloody omnishambles!!! :roll: :shock: :lol: :cry:

With Maz cocking up spectacularly and Emma fracturing a rib these trials have made everything clear as mud. I don't think I can remember a more complicated selection decision.

Had Maz and Emma come 1/2 (As they should have) it would have been pretty simple to agree on who ran the best at the Euros and give them the final Olympic place. As it is.........

- The UK 1 and 2 come 5th and 7th at the trial!!!

- The Uk's dominant runner is yet to run this year.

- The trials winner is the current UK #5.

- She's slower than those that came 2nd and 3rd @ trials (One of whom is 17 but presumeably out of Oly contention)

- 5 people have currently been names in the Euro 800m team only 3 of whom can go :?

- Assuming the Top 2 (Neither of whom have fulfilled Olympic qualifying criteria) go to the Euros they only have to run 1.59.90 to guarantee Oly selection.

- This leaves 1 place for last years top 3 Meadows, Okoro and Jackson :?

- If either Simpson or Sharp don't get QT but Meadows does do you pick her over Jackson/Okoro?

- Is Jackson's injury season threatening?

- Will Maz ever learn?

What a complete mess!!!

She only needed to cruise round and make the top 2 which should could have done easily, but her ridiculous run has put her olympic selection in serious doubt. I think she'll be REALLY lucky to make the team. It could all come dowm to how bad Emma's injury is and if Lyndsey can get the A.

Most fun I've had all weekend.

DISCUSS!!!
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Tuckin » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:23 pm

That post reads like the intro to an episode of the old US sitcom 'Soap'! (Confused? You will be.) Well done. :D

Anyway, I doubt both the first two from the trials will hit the A standard, so I'm guessing there will be a couple of spots open for Meadows/Jackson/Okoro. Sadly the first two have to prove their fitness and are very short of time, so it looks good for Marilyn despite today's brain explosion.

Jackson will hopefully recover in time - brave of her to run today in the circumstances.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Geoff » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:44 pm

It should all be clearer after the next UK Olympic Trials - I mean Euro Championships!
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby trevorp » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:51 pm

I'm appalled by the lack of medical care at these championships, evidenced by the fact that Maz was allowed to finish the race. Why wasn't she intercepted after that first lap by men in white coats? It really is too cruel...
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby sidelined » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:04 pm

I presume that it will be the top two and Jenny Meadows who get the chance to run in Helsinki. I wonder if the weather will be like it was last time - cold and wet.

Jemma Simpson is more likely that Lindsey Sharpe to get the time at the Euros, but the heats aren't likely to be fast, so will she have to keep going till the final? I suppose the Russians will be up for running sub-2. Sharpe has been running 2:01 all season. Her PB is - from memory - half a second off the A, so I suppose it's possible. Simpson could be selected on her A standards from last year.

My prediction is that Jackson will still be hampered by her injury, Sharpe won't get the A and that it will be Meadows, Simpson and the kamikaze Okoro who get to go. Unless CVC is so infuriated with Maz that he picks Jackson instead. As Flumpy says, this is fun...in a horrible kind of way.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby trevorp » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:13 pm

Did I imagine it, or wasn't there some rule that athletes doing an event that involved rounds in the Europeans wouldn't be selected for the same event in the Olympics? Isn't that why Maz is down for the 400m?
Please forgive me if this is rubbish but I think I might have been in bed all afternoon having bad dreams.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby HotHead » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:33 pm

Simple solution to the selection procedure is to pick the first 3 in trials, like the Americans and Jamaicans do. Why is Jenny Meadows allowed to race in the Europeans. She has not ran a race this year.She should have been told to run this weekend.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Tuckin » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:36 pm

HotHead wrote:Simple solution to the selection procedure is to pick the first 3 in trials, like the Americans and Jamaicans do. Why is Jenny Meadows allowed to race in the Europeans. She has not ran a race this year.She should have been told to run this weekend.


Then we'd be facing picking NONE of them, as the top 3 don't have the A standard! This is exactly why we can't afford to have US-style selection procedures - not enough depth.

(To be honest, the only reason the Americans have that policy is in order to avoid the many legal actions that would be brought by snubbed athletes if they had any other policy.)
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Occasional Hope » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:49 pm

Marilyn's a talented athlete, but appears to have poor tactical and less common sense.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Laps » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:12 pm

Occasional Hope wrote:Marilyn's a talented athlete, but appears to have poor tactical and less common sense.


Sad to watch an experienced high class athlete who is so inept, so often.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby kermit_the_frog » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:16 pm

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. This race made me feel very sad!

Maz was very silly. Yes, she has form for being very silly. However, she has the A-Standard and she's in good shape (though not the 1.48 shape she seemed to think she was in over the first lap). Considering the multiple problems of every other candidate for selection (injury or lack of A-Standard for every other athlete in contention), she would be our strongest contender for a Top 8 finish in London, in my opinion. Unless Meadows proves herself moderately fit and Simpson and Sharpe both run the A-Standard, of course... in which case all of those positives are moot and she has made the stupidest decision of her career so far. I still have faith in her (though it's never been tested as much as today). Fingers crossed - aside from Meadows, she's the only other athlete in the frame who has shown she can rise to the challenge of (and cope with the rounds of) a world-field championship. Even if none of that experience was on show today...
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby trickstat » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:31 pm

trevorp wrote:Did I imagine it, or wasn't there some rule that athletes doing an event that involved rounds in the Europeans wouldn't be selected for the same event in the Olympics? Isn't that why Maz is down for the 400m?
Please forgive me if this is rubbish but I think I might have been in bed all afternoon having bad dreams.



Not quite. Athletes who clinch automatic Olympic selection at the trials for events that have rounds at the Europeans, will be taken off the team for the Europeans if they have been selected for it. I think that makes sense :?
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Flumpy » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:34 pm

trevorp wrote:I'm appalled by the lack of medical care at these championships, evidenced by the fact that Maz was allowed to finish the race. Why wasn't she intercepted after that first lap by men in white coats? It really is too cruel...


AMAZING!!! :lol:
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Tuckin » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:43 pm

trevorp wrote:I'm appalled by the lack of medical care at these championships, evidenced by the fact that Maz was allowed to finish the race. Why wasn't she intercepted after that first lap by men in white coats? It really is too cruel...


MLF and HAA were the designated men in white coats and couldn't catch her. :lol:
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby jeremy1 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:42 am

it did not need these Trials( watching them is a trial) to tell us that our likely finalists across the board are Idowu, if fit,Dai Greene, not yet the man of last year, Ennis as a likely medallist,Mo Farah, Grabarcz,Rutherford, Ohuruogu, Porter , if she is in the right mood. Maybe one can add Okoye with a bit of luck. Our middle distance athletes, with the exception of Osagie, do not look likely finalists or top eight material, imo.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby nevetssllim » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:16 am

Not only did Okoro run stupidly tactically, I really don't think she's in much better shape than her current season's best. 27/57 was an irrational tactic but even so, it's not stupidly suicidal and you would have thought she would have held on a bit better instead of slowing to a 67 after a 57.

I'd like to see some new names in the team. I can't really see Simpson and Okoro getting beyond the SF again. Meadows, obviously, is a big question mark but should be looked at favourably despite her past selection misdemeanors. I really hope Jackson recovers because she looked really good in Doha and I'd really like to see another youngster grab the third spot.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby fangio » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:19 am

Jeremy, seriously you think we will have a grand total of 8 finallists, without Bleasdale (indoor 4.87 places her third in 2012), Thompson (not run this year at 10,000 yet), Sayers(ranked 9th), Proctor or Irozuru (ranked 11th and 14th), Aldama(ranked 7th), Rooney(championship rank 7th), Lewis (ranked =7 outdoor), PSD(not done a 400h, but new 400m flat pb), Child (currently ranked 11th), Parker (ranked 7th)

Okoye is the 4th ranked int eh world this year, so I think the only effect of luck woudl be bad luck if he did not make the final.

With luck Baddelley, Murray, England, Simpson, Meadows, Okoro, one of the sprint hurdlers (take a look at how fast people have had to be to get to the final in previous years), other 400mh, Tomlinson, Radcliffe, Yamauchi, Dennison and even Rimmer (champs rank 16) could be top 8.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby ultragirl » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:39 am

So thats about 20 top 8 athletes, hmmmmm I look forward to this.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Geoff » Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:59 am

Twenty or so potential top 8 places does not mean we will get 20 top 8 places. UKA's target is for 50% of all finals according to de Vos. We need around 16-18 potential medallists in order to achieve 8 medals (mine and CVC's words!).

A lot can change in the next few weeks, both good and bad, and I suspect our best medal shots didn't really bother too much about the trials, either preferring to train through them or giving them a miss altogether. However, some performances were disappointing.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby jeremy1 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:02 pm

A simple mugs game to talk of "could be" or "with luck".or "can" or "has the potential" Not really interested in debating at that level.

My post did not purport to mention a few names like Aldama. so what? But anybody that writes that Okoro :( is a possible finalist or even at this time Meadows, or two male 1500m runners, or Rimmer, I give up; the evidence is not there, for me.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby oldboy » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:28 pm

I dusted off my computer model and tried to make sense of the 800m final; I think I have failed, but this is as I see it.

Marilyn did not do her homework.

If she had have done her homework she would have found that she was the fastest sprinter in the pack (based on 400m times - in Marilyn’s case a bit dated 2006 I know). Research has shown that no human can sprint for more than 291m; so trying to sprint 800m did not make any sense. Instead of running a huge positive split she should have done the opposite and gone negative.


The rest

Unfortunately, Marilyn had her influence in the rest of the field and put their “A” chances beyond them. They didn’t go with her, but were dragged to the break point in about 16.5 secs (the time Savinova runs for a race time of about 115) You can’t blame Marilyn for that, they have got to make their own pace judgement.

Optimising the times of the first three home plus Marilyn in my computer model I get:
Jemma 118.34
Lynsey 118.71
Jessica 119.86
Marilyn 120.34

I know it is almost impossible to run a perfect race, but I think Jemma and Lynsey can feel hard done by if they are not invited to take the train ride to East London.
They have both got an “A” time in their grasp (Jemma already from last year). Will they get the chance to prove it? When is the Euro team picked?
Is that the last chance?
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby trickstat » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:43 pm

oldboy wrote:When is the Euro team picked?
Is that the last chance?


In turn:

1) It has been already but is very much subject to change :roll:

http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/far ... pionships/

2) Other than the Euros I am very doubtful about there being any other feasible races available. The team is due to be selected on 2 July while entries have to go in on 8 July
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Kermit » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:48 pm

jeremy1 wrote:A simple mugs game to talk of "could be" or "with luck".or "can" or "has the potential" Not really interested in debating at that level.

My post did not purport to mention a few names like Aldama. so what? But anybody that writes that Okoro :( is a possible finalist or even at this time Meadows, or two male 1500m runners, or Rimmer, I give up; the evidence is not there, for me.


If selected she CAN make the final

There I've said it - now what?
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby gp72 » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:51 pm

I agree Maz has the ability. Her tactic failed yesterday. For me it is not a foregone conclusion that she will be selected for the team. I would have to delay deciding who the final three are until after the Euros.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Armchair Runner » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:33 pm

There is no ideal solution but I'd go with:
Select Okoro for Olympics now - she is only fit athlete with two current A standards. Give her tiem to prepare and fine tune her racing brain.
Select Meadows subject to fitness proof such as a 600m time trial - a fit Meadows is our best chance of a medal - going to the Euros won't help her preparation.
Let Simpson. Sharp and Jackson run Euros and select best performing 1 (or 2 if Meadows unfit) for Olympics. Of course, in Sharp's case subject to her getting A standard.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Laps » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:45 pm

Armchair Runner wrote:There is no ideal solution but I'd go with:
Select Okoro for Olympics now - she is only fit athlete with two current A standards. Give her tiem to prepare and fine tune her racing brain.


As far as I can tell Marilyn Okoro doesn't have a racing brain. She races haphazardly and sometimes things go right.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby paulouk83 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 5:00 pm

Armchair Runner wrote:There is no ideal solution but I'd go with:
Select Okoro for Olympics now - she is only fit athlete with two current A standards. Give her tiem to prepare and fine tune her racing brain.
Select Meadows subject to fitness proof such as a 600m time trial - a fit Meadows is our best chance of a medal - going to the Euros won't help her preparation.
Let Simpson. Sharp and Jackson run Euros and select best performing 1 (or 2 if Meadows unfit) for Olympics. Of course, in Sharp's case subject to her getting A standard.


The problem with this anyway is that if Simpson and Sharp run sub 1:59.90 which could happen then they came 1st and 2nd so they would go, therefor Okoro cant be selected because Meadows has the better championship history and so if in form will be selected. Simpson has the A from last year and a number of athletes will be selected on this ground so she will have a case to be selected!

It needs to be left open until the 10 day cut off if Sharp misses the A Standard it seems highlu likely to be Simpson/Meadows/Okoro
if Meadows is unfit Emma Jackson will be added if shes recovered
if Sharp and Simpson A
Sharp/Simpson/Meadows or Okoro will go
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Kermit » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:21 pm

paulouk83 wrote:
Armchair Runner wrote:There is no ideal solution but I'd go with:
Select Okoro for Olympics now - she is only fit athlete with two current A standards. Give her tiem to prepare and fine tune her racing brain.
Select Meadows subject to fitness proof such as a 600m time trial - a fit Meadows is our best chance of a medal - going to the Euros won't help her preparation.
Let Simpson. Sharp and Jackson run Euros and select best performing 1 (or 2 if Meadows unfit) for Olympics. Of course, in Sharp's case subject to her getting A standard.


The problem with this anyway is that if Simpson and Sharp run sub 1:59.90 which could happen then they came 1st and 2nd so they would go, therefor Okoro cant be selected because Meadows has the better championship history and so if in form will be selected. Simpson has the A from last year and a number of athletes will be selected on this ground so she will have a case to be selected!

It needs to be left open until the 10 day cut off if Sharp misses the A Standard it seems highlu likely to be Simpson/Meadows/Okoro
if Meadows is unfit Emma Jackson will be added if shes recovered
if Sharp and Simpson A
Sharp/Simpson/Meadows or Okoro will go


Are you forgetting that Maz has 2 current As which is more than anyone else has got and as for last season the only person with more As than her was Meadows.

It is highly possible that even if the Sharpe and Simpson get the A they may not get selected. This has happen before.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Flumpy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:54 pm

Maz hasn't been named for the Europeans in ANY event. Not even the relay. This would indicate that she's completely out of favour (Unless it's her choice :?: )

I'd guess that they only way she makes the team is if they have no choice but to pick her.
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Re: UK Women's 800m

Postby Geoff » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:03 pm

Flumpy wrote:Maz hasn't been named for the Europeans in ANY event. Not even the relay. This would indicate that she's completely out of favour (Unless it's her choice :?: )

I'd guess that they only way she makes the team is if they have no choice but to pick her.


Perhaps she'll do like last year and run an 800 in the UK Women's League this weekend. She must have got some strong 'feedback' on her run! Am I right in thinking if Simpson and Sharpe run the A standard in Helsinki they are definitely in the team leaving just one place open? I wonder if they can both rise to the challenge?
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