Is Dave Bedford the most charismatic UK runner?

[SQUACKEE]

I been reading a thread about Prefontaine and it got me thinking about Bedford. I only saw him once. 1972 Olympic 10,000 final. With long hair and orange socks he went gallopying out in 60-4:15 mile! How is he viewed in his home country?

[Minerva]

I been reading a thread about Prefontaine and it got me thinking about Bedford. I only saw him once. 1972 Olympic 10,000 final. With long hair and orange socks he went gallopying out in 60-4:15 mile! How is he viewed in his home country?

As the man with the money for the London Marathon!!!!

Talking of charismatic runners (though probably not known much outside of the Commonwealth) I was shocked to see Matt Elias with 'normal' hair as the Birmingham Grand Prix - no Dragons in it, no swirly patterns, no strange colours!

I have to confess to a soft spot for for a charismatic US runner - Bernard Wililams - love him or loathe him I guess!

[Chris]

Bedford's World record over 10,000 metres has been beaten by overtaken by two British runners as far as I know, and I don't think he holds his club record over 5,000 metres. I am also inclined to take the stories about 200 mile weeks with a pinch of salt.

However, that doesn't tell the full story. I am lucky enough to remember Bedford from when I was a child. Bedford front ran a European record on a rough cinder track at Portsmouth, and then a world record at Crystal Palace. I think he was the greatest male distance runner we have ever had, and was the cause of the crowds coming in to Crystal Palace in the 70s and 80s. I have spoken to some people who ran with him who say he was great to be around in those days.

I like how he won the Southern Junior and Senior Cross country champs by big margins on the same afternoon.

Unfortunately, I suspect he is not well remembered nowadays and if his current projects give him a better income than he got as an athlete then good luck to him.

[Chris]

Unfortunately, I suspect he is not well remembered nowadays

See what I mean?

No posts since Monday!

[eldrick]

that day back in '73 when he ran 27'30.8 wr, i'm pretty convinced if he'd run a 5k instead that day, he couda broken that wr ( i can't remember if the wr at the time was emiel's 13'13.0 or viren's 13'16+ )

anyhows, i'd love to know bedford's '73 bests for 1.5,3 & 5k, to try & get a better idea of what he couda run in '73 for 5k

[SQUACKEE]

that day back in '73 when he ran 27'30.8 wr, i'm pretty convinced if he'd run a 5k instead that day, he couda broken that wr ( i can't remember if the wr at the time was emiel's 13'13.0 or viren's 13'16+ )

anyhows, i'd love to know bedford's '73 bests for 1.5,3 & 5k, to try & get a better idea of what he couda run in '73 for 5k

I believe Emil had the record in 73.

[marknhj]

In the context of charisma Ovett was the man in the UK. Hated by the press, loved by the public (if you read many of the forums, Ovett vs Coe comes up all the time and Ovett is probably favored 10-1).

[eldrick]

that day back in '73 when he ran 27'30.8 wr, i'm pretty convinced if he'd run a 5k instead that day, he couda broken that wr ( i can't remember if the wr at the time was emiel's 13'13.0 or viren's 13'16+ )

anyhows, i'd love to know bedford's '73 bests for 1.5,3 & 5k, to try & get a better idea of what he couda run in '73 for 5k

I believe Emil had the record in 73.

i know, but i'm too lazy to look up whether he ran that 13'13 before or after bedfords's 27'30, or whether viren's 13'16 was the record when bedford ran the wr

[Jon Mulkeen]

that day back in '73 when he ran 27'30.8 wr, i'm pretty convinced if he'd run a 5k instead that day, he couda broken that wr ( i can't remember if the wr at the time was emiel's 13'13.0 or viren's 13'16+ )

anyhows, i'd love to know bedford's '73 bests for 1.5,3 & 5k, to try & get a better idea of what he couda run in '73 for 5k

I believe Emil had the record in 73.

i know, but i'm too lazy to look up whether he ran that 13'13 before or after bedfords's 27'30, or whether viren's 13'16 was the record when bedford ran the wr

Emiel ran the 13:13 a couple months after Bedford's WR.

[eldrick]

Emiel ran the 13:13 a couple months after Bedford's WR.

ok

now, odette, look away now as the following will make you nauseous

the wrs back in '73 were then emiels 7'37 & viren's 13'16

now, for bedford with 27'30.8, assuming following 1500 times ( i believe he had decent mile speed as he did go off at crazy paces on occasion )

27'30.8 &

3'45 -> ~ 7'46.6 , 13'17.9
3'44 -> ~ 7'45.3 , 13'16.7
3'43 -> ~ 7'44.0 , 13'15.5
3'42 -> ~ 7'42.8 , 13'14.2
3'41 -> ~ 7'41.5 , 13'13.0
3'40 -> ~ 7'40.2 , 13'11.8

my gut feeling is that he certainly couda smashed viren's 13'16 wr that day & maybe even run quicker than emiel's later 13'13 wr

if anyone actually knows bedford's 1500/mile sb from '73, we'd get an even better idea of what he couda run

[Pelle3]

eldrick - Emiel Puttemans ran a 13.14,51 in Stockholm on 7-Aug-1973.

[eldrick]

eldrick - Emiel Puttemans ran a 13.14,51 in Stockholm on 7-Aug-1973.

i think we need to get all the relevant dates & times from that era listed:

viren's 13'16, emiels 13'14.5, his 13'13 & bedfords 27'30 to try & get the chronology & possibilities worked out

anyone game ?

[Pelle3]

1971:

1 3.36,0m Martin Liquori USA 1 Milano 1Jul1971
2 3.36,3m Francesco Arese ITA 2 Milano 1Jul1971
3 3.36,8mA Kipchoge Keino KEN 1 NC Nairobi 15Aug1971
4 3.37,3m Ulf Högberg SWE 21Jan1946 3 Milano 1Jul1971
5 3.37,8m i Harald Norpoth FRG 1 Berlin 13Feb1971

1 13.22,2m David Bedford GBR 1 Edinburgh 12Jun1971
2 13.24,6m Emiel Puttemans BEL 1 Bonn 11Sep1971
3 13.25,8m Kipchoge Keino KEN 1 Coke London (CP) 10Sep1971
4 13.28,4m Javier Álvarez Salgado ESP 2 Coke London (CP) 10Sep1971
5 13.29,8m Lasse Viren FIN 1 Heinola 22Aug1971

1 27.47.0m David Bedford GBR 1 vsFRA Portsmouth 10Jul1971
2 27.52.78 Juha Väätäinen FIN 1 EC Helsinki 10Aug1971
3 27.53.36 Jürgen Haase GDR 2 EC Helsinki 10Aug1971
4 27.56.25 Rashid Sharafyetdinov URS 3 EC Helsinki 10Aug1971
5 27.58.39 Danie, Korica YUG 4 EC Helsinki 10Aug1971

1972:

1 3.36,33 Pekka Vasala FIN 1 OG München 10Sep1972
2 3.36,8m Kipchoge Keino KEN 1 Mombasa 24Jun1972
3 3.37,4m Michael Boit KEN 2 Mombasa 24Jun1972
4 3.37,46 Rodney Dixon NZL 3 OG München 10Sep1972
5 3.37,8m Ivan Ivanov URS 1 Meet. CUSI Torino 2Jun1972

1 13.13,0m Emiel Puttemans BEL 8Oct1947 1 Bruxelles 20Sep1972
2 13.16,4m Lasse Viren FIN 22Jul1949 1 Helsinki 14Sep1972
3 13.17,21 David Bedford GBR 30Dec1949 1 AAA London (CP) 14Jul1972
4 13.19,66 Ian McCafferty GBR 24Nov1944 2 AAA London (CP) 14Jul1972
5 13.22,4m Gianni Del Buono ITA 1Oct1943 1 Zauli Memorial Roma 13Sep1972

1 27.38,35 Lasse Viren FIN 22Jul1949 1 OG München 3Sep1972
2 27.39,58 Emiel Puttemans BEL 8Oct1947 2 OG München 3Sep1972
3 27.40,96 Miruts Yifter ETH 15May1944 3 OG München 3Sep1972
4 27.48,14 Mariano Haro Cisneros ESP 27May1940 4 OG München 3Sep1972
5 27.51,32 Frank Shorter USA 31Oct1947 5 OG München 3Sep1972

1973:

1 3.34,6m Filbert Bayi TAN 23Jun1953 1 WG Helsinki 28Jun1973
2 3.36,2m Dave Wottle USA 7Aug1950 2 WG Helsinki 28Jun1973
3 3.36,6m Benjamin Jipcho KEN 1Mar1943 3 WG Helsinki 28Jun1973
4 3.36,8m Tom Birger Hansen DEN 25Feb1948 2 Århus 24Jun1973
5 3.36,8m Jacques Boxberger FRA 16Apr1949 4 WG Helsinki 28Jun1973

1 13.14,51 Emiel Puttemans BEL 8Oct1947 1r1 Stockholm 7Aug1973
2 13.18,33 Dick Quax NZL 1Jan1948 2r1 Stockholm 7Aug1973
3 13.20,49 Harald Norpoth FRG 22Aug1942 1 vsUSA,SUI München 12Jul1973
4 13.22,4m Steve Prefontaine USA 25Jan1951 2 WG Helsinki 27Jun1973
5 13.23,2m Paul Mose KEN 10May1949 3 WG Helsinki 27Jun1973

1 27.30,80 David Bedford GBR 30Dec1949 1 AAA London (CP) 13Jul1973
2 27.55,50 David Black GBR 20Oct1952 1 London (CP) 6Oct1973
3 27.58,6m Nikolay Sviridov URS 6Jul1938 1 NC Moskva 10Jul1973
4 27.59,8m Pavel Andreyev URS 1Jan1944 2 NC Moskva 10Jul1973
5 28.00,9m Vadim Mochalov URS 6Jan1947 3 NC Moskva 10Jul1973

1974:

1 3.32,16 Filbert Bayi TAN 23Jun1953 1 BCG Christchurch 2Feb1974
2 3.32,52 John Walker NZL 12Jan1952 2 BCG Christchurch 2Feb1974
3 3.33,16 Benjamin Jipcho KEN 1Mar1943 3 BCG Christchurch 2Feb1974
4 3.33,89 Rodney Dixon NZL 13Jul1950 4 BCG Christchurch 2Feb1974
5 3.34,22 Graham Crouch AUS 11Jan1948 5 BCG Christchurch 2Feb1974

1 13.14,4a Benjamin Jipcho KEN 1Mar1943 1 BCG Christchurch 29Jan1974
2 13.14,6a Brendan Foster GBR 12Jan1948 2 BCG Christchurch 29Jan1974
3 13.20,54 Knut Kvalheim NOR 14Jun1950 1 Top Games Helsinki 26Jun1974
4 13.21,87 Steve Prefontaine USA 25Jan1951 2 Top Games Helsinki 26Jun1974
5 13.23,38 Paul Geis USA 23Feb1953 3 Top Games Helsinki 26Jun1974

1 27.43,6m Steve Prefontaine USA 25Jan1951 1 Eugene OR 27Apr1974
2 27.46,4a Richard Tayler NZL 12Aug1948 1 BCG Christchurch 25Jan1974
3 27.48,6a David Black GBR 20Oct1952 2 BCG Christchurch 25Jan1974
4 27.57,0a Richard Juma KEN 19Jul1945 3 BCG Christchurch 25Jan1974
5 28.05,6m John Ngeno KEN 11Apr1953 1 Top Games Helsinki 27Jun1974

[Pelle3]

elders, I don:t have a mile/1500m best on Bedford, but he did record a 7.46,4 3.000m 21-Jun-1972; 5.03,16 2.000m 8-Jul-1972; and 8.28,2 2-mile 14-Aug-1972.

[7ttman]

As someone who regularly competed against Dave in the late '60's and early '70's, I can assure you that he was doing a genuine 200, consisting of 10 in the morning, 10 at lunch and 10 in the evening. When he was at St Mary's College, in Twickenham, he trained with two irish twin brothers, neither of whom trained together!

And regarding his 400, 800, mile performances - I remember him telling me during a race, that he couldn't run any faster over 800 than he could for an 800 in a mile. That said, he challenged me to sprint the last 200 yards of the race - and he beat me. That tells you that I was even a better crap sprinter than him. Oh and perhaps I forgot to mention, the race was on a Wednesday afternoon (London Colleges XC League) and he had already done his morning and lunchtime 10's and followed the race with an early evening 10.

[Javelin Sam]

Unfortunately, I suspect he is not well remembered nowadays and if his current projects give him a better income than he got as an athlete then good luck to him.

118 118 springs to mind....

[eldrick]

I don:t have a mile/1500m best on Bedford, but he did record a 7.46,4 3.000m 21-Jun-1972; 5.03,16 2.000m 8-Jul-1972; and 8.28,2 2-mile 14-Aug-1972.

well,

that goes with his:

3'45 -> ~ 7'46.6 , 13'17.9

line, except he ran the 27'30 the next year

( the only way i coud try & explain it is was bedford capable of 27'30 in the og year of '72 ? - there was that anecdote of him talkin to emiel & saying : "why don't we go for the wr ?" )

i'll have a go later with that 2k & 2 mile time

[james montgomery]

Unfortunately, I suspect he is not well remembered nowadays and if his current projects give him a better income than he got as an athlete then good luck to him.

118 118 springs to mind....

Where did you get that great picture of Graham and Grenville Tuck, The Tuck Twins?

[TomG]

No, no, no. Derek Ibbotson was the most charasmistic U.K. athlete. Nuf said!!

[chris the strider]

Has everybody forgot Tony simmons.. 27.33 10,000m, and 2nd European champs 10,000m in Rome, 2nd in World XC champs behind carlos lopes, also a 2.12 marathon!!!

[james montgomery]

Has everybody forgot Tony simmons.. 27.33 10,000m, and 2nd European champs 10,000m in Rome, 2nd in World XC champs behind carlos lopes, also a 2.12 marathon!!!

Simmons was a nice and funny guy but hardly charismatic. Bloody good runner though. Ran 53 secs last lap in Rome for his silver medal behind the (undoubtedly) ergogenically assisted East German!

[james montgomery]

I been reading a thread about Prefontaine and it got me thinking about Bedford. I only saw him once. 1972 Olympic 10,000 final. With long hair and orange socks he went gallopying out in 60-4:15 mile! How is he viewed in his home country?

Was, not "is" Dave Bedford the most charismatic runner in the UK?

Probably. He was as "mad as a hatter" and changed all the ploders ideas about running. A real character and not a bad runner tho' he never won a medal at any intermnational championship except for the forerunner of the World Cross Country which he won. (Probably got his rivals drunk the night before!)

[chris the strider]

Simmons and Bedford on a night out in Luton, great fun.

[james montgomery]

Simmons and Bedford on a night out in Luton, great fun.

Very true. Throw in Nick Rose, Mick McLeod and Tony Staynings and you've got a riot!

[chris the strider]

I remember when he rang Chris Brasher to ask if he could run London...this was at 3 in the morning on the day of the race MAD!!! I think he was running on pure guiness

[james montgomery]

I remember when he rang Chris Brasher to ask if he could run London...this was at 3 in the morning on the day of the race MAD!!! I think he was running on pure guiness

The only phone call he made at 3am on the day of the race was for a taxi to get him home from the party. He "ran" the race for a £200 quid bet from someone at the party (trouble is he walked from 22 miles. Totally shagged!)

[Darkelf]

I believe Emil had the record in 73.

I think Puttemans WR was indoor. Viren held the outdoor.

[Darkelf]

I am also inclined to take the stories about 200 mile weeks with a pinch of salt.

Don't know about 200 a week but he was definately a 160 man and was known to train in steel toe capped boots.

Johnnie Broe (Shaftsbury) lives just down the road from me and tells some great stories about being on the pee with bedford