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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Brighton Boy » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:30 am

Check out this outrage:
http://masterstrack.com/blog/001212.html
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Postby Jon Mulkeen » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:02 pm

Mountain out of a molehill.
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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Anthony Treacher » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:58 am

On February 9, exactly one month ago, I sent the following e-mail to "Jon" (Jon never answered):

"Hello Jon,

In all friendliness. I chanced on your "Mountain out of Molehill" comment.
I protested against BMAF Team Manager Maurice Doogan illegally entering the track at Linz past the Call Room officials, attempting to substitute an athlete not on the Final Call Room List and verbally abusing me on the track by calling me an Asshole. Had I done such things as an athlete, the BMAF would have given me a serious warning immediately. There seems to be a double standard for athletes and BMAF officers.

Just between you and me - I will not quote you. I just want to know what makes athletics people tick. Do you actually condone Maurice Doogan's actions? Do you condone the BMAF cover-up? Or have I misunderstood your comment?

All the best,

Anthony Treacher"
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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Anthony Treacher » Thu May 24, 2007 8:47 am

In response to my September 2006 query I have received a response from World Masters Athletics (WMA):
2. From the facts that we are aware of, the procedures used to conduct the 4x200 Relay at the WMA Indoor Championships at Linz were not in compliance with IAAF rules.

3. At future WMA Championships, special care must to be taken to insure (sic) that Relay procedures are carried out per IAAF rules.

It may well be that in Point 2 above:
the procedures used to conduct the 4x200 Relay

refers to my BMAF Team Manager illegally entering the track past the Call Room officials and attempting to substitute an athlete not on the Final Call Room List. That was the basis of my formal complaint against the BMAF Team Manager that resulted in the BMAF suspending me.

Ref: The Masterstrack.com forum:
http://www.masterstrack.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=3,
Topic "Substitute not on Final Call Room List - what are the rules?"

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Postby kima » Sat May 26, 2007 4:46 am

Wow. British Master athletes can be as much as a PIA as those in Canada.(refuse to coach them cos they take themselves so bloody seriously when they ought to know better).


For gawd's sake Anthony- just be grateful you can run, jump or throw and let it go.
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Postby usedtoit33 » Sat May 26, 2007 6:44 pm

Who was the last minute substitute and who was meant to run in the relay?

It does sound like the rules weren't followed, but I seem to remember last minute substitutions happening all the time in the lower UK leagues. Is this something to get really worked up about? (The last minute substitution, not the banning, I mean).
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Sat May 26, 2007 8:33 pm

Stick to your guns Anthony Treacher, do not be put off by these posters, I am sure a man with your depth of knowledge of the sport, should be listened to! Not got at by those who know very little indeed about fairness in athletics and by the tone of their post care even less.

Rules are rules, and if you have been badly treated by the wrongful implementation of such rules then you deserve full redress!

Stick to what your conscience tells you and ignore those who want you to play it down simply to pacify those who warrant no respect.
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Postby kima » Sat May 26, 2007 8:46 pm

I don't anything about the rules in Britain . My point is Masters should compete for fun-this ain't the Olympics. Don't believe that what you do is as important as all that.
So a sub was made on a relay? Get it over and go out there and have fun.

Leave the serious stuff to the young athletes who still have something to prove.
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Sun May 27, 2007 1:56 pm

I find that attitude a little patronizing, veteran athletics is just as serious and meaningful to these guys, often more so than young athletes, it is never to late to pull out a great performance, so please lets not be ageist in our attitudes to the older athlete.

Besides how does what you say help him remove the ban slapped on him?
Is his organization a democratically elected one? if so then he needs to get 25 votes to call an EGM and get this issue resolved.
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Postby kima » Sun May 27, 2007 3:18 pm

I not patronizing older athletes.

I completely admire and respect their abilities and endeavors.

I simply get irritated when they a big fuss over little things and don't just compete for the pure joy of it.
Surely by the age of 65 one has learned not to take themselves so seriously and to keep things in perspective.
Sadly as an official I have dealt with more difficult and demanding Masters athletes than in any other age category.
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Sun May 27, 2007 6:11 pm

Conversely I find masters much easier to coach and more willing to learn, but what about the unfair ban, you fail to comment on this?
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Postby kima » Sun May 27, 2007 6:58 pm

Oldbill wrote:Conversely I find masters much easier to coach and more willing to learn, but what about the unfair ban, you fail to comment on this?


I don't know the details nor do I really care.
Perhaps the Masters association also takes itself too seriously.

All I am saying is- someone made a sub on a relay....no big deal. Nice that that chap got a chance to run.

I have also coached Masters athletes- of course one can not categorize all masters but (and I am in that age category myself) the ones that are fun to coach are those who again don't take it too seriously and understand that first priority goes to the young, up and coming athletes. The others who moan on about their aches and pains and fuss over every trivial aspect of their training drive me crazy. They can be more self absorbed than any teen. :roll: :roll:

I once heard a man about 75 say to one of his competitors-" damn I wish so and so was here today. I am ready to kick his butt". Sadly he was not joking (if he had been that would have been hilarious). How pathetic to feel that way at age 75. Do your best, wish others the same and keep on smiling!!!

Sorry that is all for me on the subject of Masters-carry on!!
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Mon May 28, 2007 12:23 am

So fairness in sport is not your first priority?

www.athleticsdaily.info

This site has the interest of the athletes at heart before any personal interest.
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Postby fangio » Tue May 29, 2007 9:19 am

You must be joking it's full of ABAC members having a go at UKA for nothgin other than personal reasons. You can see that's the case because they very rarely say what they would have actually done differently.

I don't mind you pointing out that the site offers one side fo teh argumetn in greater detail, but it certainly is not devoid of personal interest, otherwise you would be able to see debate, rather than people being banned for disagreeing with the views of the moderators. Personal Interest just about encapsulates the site's raison d'etre.
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Postby sleady » Tue May 29, 2007 12:03 pm

Well said fangio!

According to at least one of the main protagonists the only people that matter in athletics are coaches. Not much use when there are no athletes left to coach!

....and whoever it is that used the word 'payed' about 28 times in a single post - well I suggest they go to adult literacy classes rather than worry about trying to be a coach!

I notice this morning that they've dumped the jokes section into the politcal section. Clearly they are not interested in debating the very real problems that are besetting our sport.
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Post subject: M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Anthony Treacher » Tue May 29, 2007 1:36 pm

No. Not "Well said fangio", at all.

Listen you two - "fangio" and "sleady" - you are highjacking this thread. That is what I do and it is very impolite. We finally got rid of that crazy Canadian harridan and I have things of great import to impart. So back off please and keep this slot clear. The subject is the WMA-BMAF Linz Scandal from now on.
OK?

Anthony Treacher
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Postby sleady » Tue May 29, 2007 1:58 pm

'scandal' !

Ranks right up with Watergate and JFK in my book.... :roll:
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Re: Post subject: M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby fangio » Tue May 29, 2007 4:01 pm

Anthony Treacher wrote:No. Not "Well said fangio", at all.

Listen you two - "fangio" and "sleady" - you are highjacking this thread. That is what I do and it is very impolite. We finally got rid of that crazy Canadian harridan and I have things of great import to impart. So back off please and keep this slot clear. The subject is the WMA-BMAF Linz Scandal from now on.
OK?

Anthony Treacher


Anthony,

If Oldbill doesn't misrepresent athleticsdaily I won't need to correct him. So please add Oldbill to your list or get rid fo the list.

Personally I consider it impolite to tell me to bck off when all I did was post about the post before mine.
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Tue May 29, 2007 5:40 pm

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Postby fangio » Tue May 29, 2007 7:49 pm

Great reasoning in defence of athletics daily there Oldbill. Guess you really can't defend your comments if that's your response.

BTW, why is the donkey moving like that, are standing you behind it?
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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Anthony Treacher » Tue May 29, 2007 8:16 pm

Ah so.. You guys. I see....

Back at the 2006 World Masters Indoors Linz, the British Team Manager called his British athlete an "Asshole". So we are actually moving in the right direction. Very clever. Getting warmer one could say. Keep at it.

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Postby fangio » Tue May 29, 2007 11:42 pm

Anthony

Please tell me a bit more, did you call the manger anything? Did you go on to defame him in any way after the event? All I can find is one side of the story, so I am not prepared to judge it. I simply can't say from the infromation offered if the manager was right or wrong about you or your actions, where can I find the other side fo the story?
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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Wed May 30, 2007 1:33 am

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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Anthony Treacher » Wed May 30, 2007 9:25 am

Oldbill - fangio is now talking real horsesense.

fangio - Good questions, very good questions. Thank you.

I must phrase my answers carefully. Mmmm.…. at the risk of being a little hard on myself....

1. I am on record as telling the BMAF Team Manager to "go away". It was more like "get off the fucking track."

2. Yes, I defamed him in the sense that I mentioned his actions to others.

3. Theoretically - you should be able to get the other side of the story (it is now many, many stories) from:

British Masters Athletics Federation (BMAF)
World Masters Athletics (WMA)
The Upper Austria Athletics Federation (OÖLV)
UK Athletics (UKA)
The International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF)
and most recently
The Canadian Masters Athletics Association (CMAA)
USA Track&Field Masters (USATF Masters)

They are unlikely to respond to you. There is a gagging order in place:
Spring 2007 number 79 of the BMAF journal "Masters Athletics", page 9.

From our Chairman Winston Thomas

Many of you will be aware of the fact that the B.M.A.F have suspended an athlete for a period of one year, this athlete has written, emailed and made several allegations about myself, our President and B.M.A.F. overall, there will be no comments from me and other members of B.M.A.F. on the issue, but suffice to say that those of you that know me will be able to make sound judgement of all you may see and hear.

The BMAF Chairman is also the WMA Secretary. So good luck with your queries.

But you may continue to ask me questions. I have nothing to hide.

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Postby fangio » Wed May 30, 2007 1:00 pm

Anthony

Just a couple of questions for you, hope you don’t mind.

Who decided to take the original runner out of the line-up?
Were the management consulted before doing this?
Were the management given the opportunity to appeal the change in timetable and the need of the team to await their 4th runner?
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Postby Oleg » Wed May 30, 2007 1:55 pm

Oldbill, that makes 27 names now?
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M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby Anthony Treacher » Wed May 30, 2007 3:17 pm

fangio - Fine. I will do my best. But first it depends on the definition of the "original runner"- depends on whether you mean the original runner on the Relay Team Composition List, or on the Final Call Room List. Anyway....

1. The "original runner on the Relay Team Composition List" was not present at the Call Room in time. Through no fault of his own, he was simply not there. I had no part in his not being there.

In answer to your third question - "Were the management given the opportunity to appeal the change in timetable and the need of the team to await their 4th runner?" I do not know and it was not my business. I have repeatedly tried to contact the OÖLV officials at Linz on similar questions but they do not respond. That is impolite, as usual. To be generous to them, I assume they are gagged too.

2. At the Call Room, the formal substitute on the Relay Team Composition List then volunteered to run. That was according to the rules. The nice Linz Call Room officials approved it and then entered the name of the formal substitute on to the Final Call Room List. From then on you could say he was the formal substitute and "original runner on the Final Call Room List". OK? All with me?

That formal substitute and "original runner on the Final Call Room List" was actually another BMAF Team Leader, indeed a member of the BMAF Committee. My pal the Team Manager, also a member of the BMAF Committee, was even present at the Call Room (where he should not have been - but he meant well). So - in answer to your second question - in every conceivable way the BMAF management were consulted/informed about this before the Call Room officials formally escorted the GBR 4x200m relay team onto the track and afterwards. I had no part in it.

3. The BMAF Team Manager invaded the track with the "original runner on the Relay Composition List" who had failed to turn up at the Call Room in time. According to IAAF rules this runner is automatically disqualified from the relay and the Team Manager is not allowed on the track.

In answer to your first question - On the track, the BMAF Team Manager then illegally attempted to persuade the relay team to take the formal substitute and "original runner on the Final Call Room List" out of the line-up and instead substitute him with the runner who was late - a substitute who was not on the Final Call Room List. I opposed that substitution on the grounds that it was formally cheating and would lay the GBR team open to serious embarrassment. I could not imagine running while formally cheating and with the clear prospect of being disqualified at the end of it. The relay team concurred with me. So, the illegal substitution actually (thankfully) did not take place. My stand annoyed the BMAF Team Manager.

I immediately, 22 March 2006, notified the BMAF that I may wish to file a complaint about the BMAF Team Manager. The BMAF President then ignored me for two months and then the BMAF Chairman ignored me for three months. During that period the BMAF made no complaint against me for my conduct at Linz or otherwise - only later when I insisted on pursuing my complaint against the BMAF Team Manager. So my complaint to the BMAF about the conduct of a BMAF official ends up with the BMAF "suspending" me. And the BMAF Committee that suspended me had two members who were directly involved at Linz and who thus knew the truth of the whole story.

Anyway, keep the questions coming if you want. Let's have it all out in the open. But it may be just as long and complicated. Sorry.

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Postby Power-of-ten-man » Thu May 31, 2007 7:40 pm

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Re: Post subject: M65 sprinter banned for speaking out

Postby kima » Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:13 am

Anthony Treacher wrote:No. Not "Well said fangio", at all.

Listen you two - "fangio" and "sleady" - you are highjacking this thread. That is what I do and it is very impolite. We finally got rid of that crazy Canadian harridan and I have things of great import to impart. So back off please and keep this slot clear. The subject is the WMA-BMAF Linz Scandal from now on.
OK?

Anthony Treacher



I just saw a story on the news about a 39 year old father of three kids who is dying from ALS.

If you feel need to speak out about injustices there is a genocide going on in Darfur that desperately needs attention.


Enjoy your run. :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby Interested » Fri Jun 01, 2007 7:28 am

I'm sorry to say this, but I think you have taken this too far now - you really can only get so many tunes from an old violin. It's got to the point where you ARE making a mountain out of a molehill and I do agree that too many vets take themselves far too seriously.
I am a professional coach so don't get too many vet athletes approach me (many are content to be coached by anonymus contributors in glossy magazines) although I was one myself for a number of years.
I agree with your original sense of anger at an apparently blatent flouting of rules, but if you are not careful, people who have respected you in the past will start fidgeting at the prospect of your presence. I don't know if you have accomplished much as an athlete (vet championships, if not preceded by senior accomplishment, don't mean all that much) and it would be a shame if you ended up ranting on street corners long after your ban had expired and became a local figure of fun. Like I said, I'm sorry, but...
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