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Olympic Stadium Take 2!

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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Tue Feb 21, 2012 6:12 pm

Barry Hearn: London 2012 Olympic Stadium is not fit for football

......And Hearn, speaking to Sky Sports News, said: "The more I look at the stadium, the more and more convinced I am that it is not fit for football purposes.

"I have to say after my tour of the stadium, wonderful stadium though it is, I don't think it is good for football.

"No-one has actually taken responsibility or admitted they have built the 'wrong' stadium.

"They didn't listen to advice five years ago when everyone was telling them what kind of stadium can work.

"We have to face these problems and be honest.

"Let's use some common sense otherwise it is going to be a horrendous white elephant.

"We have seen that happen around the world, let's hope it does not happen to London."

http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/ ... r-football

There's a reasonable chance the stadium won't host football but it really does need a winter sport. Athletics, cricket and concerts are all summer activities and I don't think rugby and/or American Football can completely fill the gap. Just think what we could have had if Spurs and West Ham had come on board a few years ago. We could have had a roof, retractable seating and the best stadium in the world! But they didn't so we have to make the best of it.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:28 am

Geoff the bottom line is that Athletics don't trust Football and that came about after the Wembley fiasco that not only screwed British athletics but made them the laughing stock of the world. If Spurs and Orient were not hell bent on endless attempts to put the original winning bid in endless courtrooms West Ham would of foot the bill for under soil heating.

East London football club West Ham would have footed the bill of up to 2 million pounds ($3 million) to install a new pitch with under-soil heating, but its long-term tenancy agreement was ripped up last year due to legal challenges.
http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15881/content ... d=v6KrJhHO

Football thinks it is the saviour of British sport, but the reality is that not many of them are in credit/profit and attendances are falling and quiet a few clubs rely on the support of other sports or events. It is also interesting to note that Wembley is still in debt and will not start making a profit until at least 2020 with the tax payers of the London Borough of Brent footing the bill.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby readtherules » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:27 pm

Heavy throws and underground heating ???
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:27 pm

Kermit wrote:Football thinks it is the saviour of British sport, but the reality is that not many of them are in credit/profit and attendances are falling and quiet a few clubs rely on the support of other sports or events. It is also interesting to note that Wembley is still in debt and will not start making a profit until at least 2020 with the tax payers of the London Borough of Brent footing the bill.


There you go again Kermit.

Attendances have been on a plateau for the last five years and are not falling.
(http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/ ... 495-200910)
( http://www.soccerstats.com/attendance.a ... gland_2011)
The majority of Premier League clubs have average attendances of 90+% capacity so there is little scope for increasing attendances without building ever larger football grounds. All this in the context of wall-to-wall television coverage, higher unemployment and family budgets being squeezed.

Whatever the income of football clubs they would spend more than they can afford on players. It is in the nature of the beast. In that respect nothing has changed in the fifty years I have been following the game, except for the involvement of some of the richest people in the world.

Wembley Stadium makes an operating profit of £40M-50M a year. Loan repayments mean that the FA have budgetted to subsidise the stadium to the tune £12M this year and next and from 2015 the stadium should be a net contributor of funds to the sport. Like any large project it takes a long time to pay for. How this amounts to the taxpayers of Brent footing the bill it would be interesting to learn.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:45 am

Laps those statistics are based mainly on season tickets sales, almost every club have empty seats on match days and yet the full house sign comes up. It is something that has been noted by television commetators. During the building process and during the fiacso that followed the residents saw their council tax rise.

I also believe that the FA do not own Wembley but they rent office space from Wembley Stadium Ltd. They moved from their more expensive Soho base at a time when they were almost bankrupt.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:04 am

Olympic Stadium would have to feel like home for West Ham, Sullivan claims

February 22 - West Ham United are not prepared to share the Olympic Stadium with another football or rugby club and will only move there if they are confident that the atmosphere will be good, their co-chairman David Sullivan has warned.

He has also admitted that they could still remain and redevelop their current ground at Upton Park.

"There's a big part of us that wants to stay at Upton Park," Sullivan told The Daily Telegraph in an interview published today.

"It's a very difficult decision."

West Ham are among 16 parties to have expressed an interest in taking over the Stadium after London 2012 but are refusing to commit themslves to actually submitting a full bid by the deadline of March 23.

"We would need to ensure that the atmosphere at the stadium is right for football," Sullivan said.

"Whatever shape or form that takes is still under discussion.

"We reckon we can make the Stadium work from a legacy point of view, to provide a heart in the Stadium, to create the jobs, the usage, to give the Stadium a national and international stage, but we have to be sure it is right for football.

.......And Sullivan has admitted that they do have plans to redevelop the current ground.

"We have a stadium that could have a 45,000 capacity," he told The Daily Telegraph.

"We have a hotel.

"We have 3,000 corporate hospitality guests, a stadium we own.

http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/ ... van-claims
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:01 am

Kermit wrote:Laps those statistics are based mainly on season tickets sales, almost every club have empty seats on match days and yet the full house sign comes up. It is something that has been noted by television commetators. During the building process and during the fiacso that followed the residents saw their council tax rise.

I also believe that the FA do not own Wembley but they rent office space from Wembley Stadium Ltd. They moved from their more expensive Soho base at a time when they were almost bankrupt.


Kermit

No they are not. They are actual attendances, apart from those clubs with regular full houses who base their figures on seats sold. Arsenal being the most quoted example.
This article about Arsenal explains -http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/feb/15/sport.comment

I was at the Aviva Indoor meeting at Birmingham NIA on Saturday. That was hailed as a 8,000 sell-out but for most of the event substantial numbers of seats remained empty and even towards the climax no more than 90% were filled. Do we conclude from that athletics attendances are falling?

A quick Google search would leave you in no doubt that The Football Association own Wembley Stadium. The FA have never been anywhere near bankruptcy, despite continuing to pay for a massive stadium and at the same time building a large national centre for coaching and elite squads at Burton (http://www.thefa.com/St-Georges-Park/Th ... Plans.aspx). In difficult times that is some achievement.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:43 pm

So what is Wembley Stadium Limited? When Adam Crozier left the FA they were facing bankruptcy, the new head of the FA was charged with the restructuring of the FA, there were job losses, the new academy was put on hold. Yes they have sorted themselves out but they are still in debt as are the majority of football clubs.

Google doesn't tell you everything!
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:41 pm

Kermit wrote:Google doesn't tell you everything!


No, but at least it would get you started.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:33 am

London 2012 Olympics: West Ham ready to renew battle for long-term tenancy of Olympic Stadium

West Ham United are to proceed with a bid for the Olympic Stadium this week, signalling the start of what is likely to be a contentious and protracted negotiation over the future of the arena.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... adium.html
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:18 pm

Orient chairman Barry Hearn had expressed an interest in moving into the stadium but after months of due diligence decided not to proceed with a full bid in the last few days.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... adium.html
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:21 pm

Higher education, cricket and major league baseball set for Olympic Stadium?

University of East London and Essex County Cricket join Olympic Stadium bid

http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/ ... tadium-bid

Still need West Ham to provide the major winter sport though. Negotiations should be interesting!
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:12 pm

We'll attract a million fans to the Olympic Stadium each year, predicts West Ham

April 3 - West Ham United today vowed to bring a million customers to the Olympic Park in London each year – should it win the right to move into the nearby Olympic Stadium.

To achieve this, the English Championship club has indicated it would reduce ticket prices for supporters and is confident it could fill the stadium (pictured above) that will be reduced in capacity from 80,000 to 60,000 after this summer's Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Also key to the bid is the assurance made by London when it won the bid to host the Olympics and Paralympics in 2012 that it would provide an athletics legacy – and West Ham has reaffirmed its commitment to that promise.

The club insisted it would take pride in sharing the world-class stadium with athletics during the summer months, and UK Athletics has publicly supported its bid.

To this end, the running track around the stadium will remain in place indefinitely at the ground enabling the Stratford venue to host the World Championships in 2017.

.....Warren made clear that the club's bid for the stadium was conditional on the venue being "fit for world class football".

http://www.insidethegames.biz/olympics/ ... s-west-ham

I assume West Ham will try to get the OPLC to pay, or at least a substantial proportion, the costs of under soil heating, retractable seating and a retractable roof! Also Leyton Orient will be a continuing thorn in their side.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:09 pm

I have just seen a couple of tweets from a respected sports reporter for one of the nationals.

Saw Karren Brady at West Ham earlier to discuss Olympic Stadium bid. Said "cannot bully the government" to give it to them .... Despite West Ham debt of £70m, Karren Brady insists owners have "substantial wealth" & Oly Stadium move would "increase financial stability"


Geoff, you comments in the last post combined with this leaves me to believe that a loan like the £40m that the Borough Council agreed to (with West Ham) may still be needed.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Tue Apr 03, 2012 11:14 pm

With regards to under soil heating I think it is quite possible that neither West Ham or the OPLC will have to stump up the cash to pay for it. There is an association consisting of all 92 clubs that allocates funds much like lottery funding specifically for ground improvements.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:37 am

West Ham supporters back move to Olympic Stadium, insists club vice-chairman Karren Brady
West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady claimed that the supporters who had seen the detailed proposals to move from Upton Park to the Olympic Stadium were “100 per cent” behind the switch if their 99-year lease tender to become the anchor tenant succeeds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... Brady.html

Most will question the 100% support!
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:09 pm

Geoff wrote:West Ham supporters back move to Olympic Stadium, insists club vice-chairman Karren Brady
West Ham vice-chairman Karren Brady claimed that the supporters who had seen the detailed proposals to move from Upton Park to the Olympic Stadium were “100 per cent” behind the switch if their 99-year lease tender to become the anchor tenant succeeds.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/footba ... Brady.html

Most will question the 100% support!


The latest poll on the No.1 West Ham supporters website shows - 61% Against, 17% Unsure and 21% In Favour of moving to the OS.
http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=138708 (link may not work unless you are a member).

There must be doubt if 100% of the board are in favour, let alone 100% of the supporters. :roll:
Brady is doing a great job of leading West Ham to the OS. Whether anyone will be following her when the crunch comes in May remains to be seen.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:34 pm

This all sounds only too familiar but Barry Hearn could yet again derail West Ham.

London 2012: West Ham's Olympic Stadium bid flawed, says Barry Hearn

West Ham's latest bid to move into the Olympic Stadium is "fundamentally flawed" and should be disqualified, according to Leyton Orient chairman Barry Hearn.

West Ham have declared their renewed application to move from Upton Park after the collapse of their original attempt following legal challenges from Orient and Tottenham Hotspur.

The Championship club have applied for a 99-year lease of the stadium, but Hearn is now demanding the bid is rejected.

"I am 100% certain that West Ham do not have the permission of the Football League, a fundamental criteria of the bid process" Hearn told the BBC.

"The Olympic Park Legacy Company [OLPC] have no choice but to disqualify them."

In December 2011 the OPLC listed certain minimum requirements for bidders, including "governing body consent".

According to the OPLC's Invitation to Tender document: "Each bidder who proposes content of a sporting nature must have written confirmation from the relevant governing body that the said governing body supports fixtures being played at the stadium..."

Hearn believes West Ham failed to meet that condition by 23 March, the deadline for bids.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/olympics/17629661
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Thu May 10, 2012 10:05 am

London 2012 Olympics: decision on future of Olympic Stadium may come after the Games
A decision over the future of the Olympic Stadium could be delayed until after the Games following Boris Johnson’s moves to replace the chairman of the body that will make the call.

The recently reelected London mayor has appointed Daniel Moylan, a Conservative councillor, as chairman of the London Legacy Development Corporation.

The move is likely to see Baroness Margaret Ford, the chairman since its inception, leave in June, before her expected departure in September.

Moylan’s appointment is understood to have come as a surprise to the board, and Ford was informed by Johnson only on Tuesday.

The change in leadership could further delay a decision over the stadium.

The Daily Telegraph revealed this week that the May 21 deadline for a decision over West Ham’s tenancy was likely to be missed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... Games.html
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby bevone » Fri May 11, 2012 12:03 am

Went to the UK school games to watch one of my lads (win - again -slip that one in!!) and i thought the stadium was pretty good, still unfinished - scoreboards seemed fine. However, the infield is huge and seems big enough to play cricket on. The home straight outside lane is a goood 20-25m away from the stands at its furtherst - so playing football would need a massive shift forward! Otherwise I was impressed with the stadium which has a roof all around but may not protect most inside. I fear the weather will spoil the games but will benefit us. Although it was wet it was warm and very little wind inside.

My biggest complaint os the 30-35minute walk fromt he tube to the seats! That is inaaceptible, i hope there is someo sort of transport of someone selling bikes within the grounds! There are faciliteis further away from the stadium as well. That is my main concern. Im sure the prices will be horendous hen the games start for food but that is rip off britain for you! The staff were 1st class and that is what we are good at - i think transport around the complex will be an issue but if they have step on step off carriages i am sure it will be fine.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Mon May 14, 2012 1:01 pm

Statement on the Olympic Stadium from the London Legacy Development Corporation
14 May 2012

The London Legacy Development Corporation today announced it is extending the Stadium competition process by a further eight weeks to allow all parties who registered to receive the Invitation to Tender (ITT) additional time to submit a bid.
The Legacy Corporation has taken this action to allow more time to address a number of issues which have arisen since the ITT was issued in January.

Andrew Altman, Chief Executive of the London Legacy Development Corporation, said:
“We are determined to run a process that is fair to all and delivers the best possible legacy for the Olympic Stadium. We have been very encouraged by the quality of the bids so far. However, a number of issues have arisen during the process and we believe it is sensible to give everyone more time so they can be addressed.

“We want to make the process as competitive as possible and extending the competition period will will allow all parties that registered an initial interest in the Stadium another chance to bid.

“The fundamentals have not changed and it remains our intention to sign construction contracts for converting the Stadium at the end of October, with the intention of re-opening in 2014 as previously announced. This is a significant public asset and a 99 year lease, and it is right that we take the time now to get the best possible outcome for the Stadium.”

The Legacy Corporation has made a number of clarifications to the ITT in response to issues that have arisen since the ITT was first issued in January, some of which we understand may have deterred interested parties from bidding. These include governing body approvals, technical improvements to the Stadium and the opportunity to bid for the right to exploit the Stadium naming rights.

http://www.londonlegacy.co.uk/statement ... rporation/
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Mon May 14, 2012 6:23 pm

A sudden change of Chairman, a delay in the decision until at least October and moving the goalposts suggests that this process is in deep trouble. Perhaps West Ham have indicated that they would drop out on the basis of the terms negotiated so far?

Incidentally in the only poll of West Ham supporters which has had any credibility, that of Season Ticket holders and regular attenders recently polled by WHU's View, the result from 2431 named and verified responders went like this -

‘Based on all available information do you agree with West Ham United’s proposed move to the Olympic Stadium?'
YES : 13.4%
NO : 86.6%

If West Ham (8/13 fav) were to lose to Blackpool in Saturday's playoff final maybe the whole sorry saga will finally be put to bed. Until 2017 that is.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Flumpy » Mon May 14, 2012 7:08 pm

bevone wrote:My biggest complaint os the 30-35minute walk fromt he tube to the seats!


What station did you get off at. It's a 15 minute walk max.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Mon May 14, 2012 8:23 pm

Flumpy wrote:
bevone wrote:My biggest complaint os the 30-35minute walk fromt he tube to the seats!


What station did you get off at. It's a 15 minute walk max.


Bev's getting on a bit now. He's not as fit as he tells us he once was - apparently you used to run and throw a spear, or so he says :)
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Sat May 19, 2012 3:36 pm

West Ham bid overshadows legacy

There is a lot more at stake in the Championship play-off final tomorrow than simply West Ham's league status. A matter of national significance rests on whether they can secure a swift return to the Premier League 12 months after they were relegated.

After so many false starts and mistakes, the Olympic Stadium saga has entered yet another phase of uncertainty.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/davidbond/20 ... legac.html

West Ham are playing Blackpool as I post. Will a defeat and no promotion scupper this deal for another year? Will we have to wait until 2018?
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Sat May 19, 2012 3:45 pm

I really don't see what the fuss is. The City of Manchester Stadium when it was converted to a football ground started life in the Championship
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Geoff » Sat May 19, 2012 5:11 pm

Kermit wrote:I really don't see what the fuss is. The City of Manchester Stadium when it was converted to a football ground started life in the Championship


I know but they did'nt have Barry Hearn as a neighbour!

West Ham won today so that negotiates one obstacle as well as putting a considerable amount of cash in the kitty. Expect further delays, though, as well as continued uncertainty post 2017. It will be interesting to see West Ham's plans for the stadium and whether they can install retractable seating - something many people believe is very difficult and very expensive. I also expect them to lever a lot more out of the new legacy development company.
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Sat May 19, 2012 6:09 pm

Yes West Ham scraped through by the skin of their teeth.
So it is highly likely that they will be tenants of the Olympic Stadium, although as Geoff says there may be the odd twist yet to come. Unfortunately sharing with West Ham will turn out to be bad news for the Olympic Stadium as home to Athletics in the long term imo.

When Manchester City first occupied the Etihad (formerly City of Manchester) Stadium it was already a football ground. The athletics track had been taken out, the pitch lowered several metres and the stands extended to pitchside. A fine football ground it is too. Having been inside both the Etihad and the Olympic Stadium this year I can tell you that the viewing experience is as different as chalk and cheese. If you are a West Ham supporter you will need binoculars and a good sense of humour.

BTW Kermit when Manchester City first occupied the Etihad they were already back in the Premier League and of course are now the best team in the country. :wink:
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Kermit » Sat May 19, 2012 6:20 pm

Laps the history books will show that they are the best team in the country but the reality is they won on goal difference from a team that had one of their worst injury spells in their history!

Let's see how negotiations go, but I am sure that the Football Trust will stump up the money for one of the problems that West Ham would face - that of undersoil heating!
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Re: Olympic Stadium Take 2!

Postby Laps » Sun May 20, 2012 11:37 am

Kermit wrote:Laps the history books will show that they are the best team in the country but the reality is they won on goal difference from a team that had one of their worst injury spells in their history!

Let's see how negotiations go, but I am sure that the Football Trust will stump up the money for one of the problems that West Ham would face - that of undersoil heating!


The reported cost of the undersoil heating instalation is about the same as one years contract for one below average Premier League player. Relative chicken feed, but of course West Ham will get someone else to pay for it if they can.

How will undersoil heating and general pitch quality survive the bombardment of the heavy throws is more to the point imo?
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