BLOOD TESTS

[1mummydearest]

All the athletes to be blood tested at champs perhaps the comp should be how many
athletes pull out of competing ???????

[LiamRiley]

Awesome. All to be done at a specialist unit on-site at the athlete's village as well! Hopefully this reduces lab abnormalities and allows athletes to be subject to identical testing procedures.

The announcement of the program after the entry submissions is a good move by the IAAF. This may well prove to be the best move the governing body has made in a while. For me this is the best athletics news this year so far!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/14494816.stm

[Geoff]

I put this on the doping section this morning but entirely agree this is really good news. To quote Katherine Merry and, I think, David Oliver:

Britain's former Olympic 400m bronze-medallist Katharine Merry hailed the decision by the sport's governing body the IAAF to announce testing only after entries for the event had closed.

"Will be interesting to see if athletes withdraw from Daegu with illness or injury due to IAAF introducing all athletes to blood testing," she said on Twitter.

So who might pull out?

[pedro1970]

This is very good news indeed.

[devonian]

I put this on the doping section this morning but entirely agree this is really good news. To quote Katherine Merry and, I think, David Oliver:

Britain's former Olympic 400m bronze-medallist Katharine Merry hailed the decision by the sport's governing body the IAAF to announce testing only after entries for the event had closed.

"Will be interesting to see if athletes withdraw from Daegu with illness or injury due to IAAF introducing all athletes to blood testing," she said on Twitter.

So who might pull out?

I wouldn't be surprised to see a certain leading American female sprinter pull out due to injury & sadly a Brit female sprinter...along with a host of Eastern European throwers!

[usedtoit33]

I'm expecting a few East African distance runners personally.

[mump boy]

I put this on the doping section this morning but entirely agree this is really good news. To quote Katherine Merry and, I think, David Oliver:

Britain's former Olympic 400m bronze-medallist Katharine Merry hailed the decision by the sport's governing body the IAAF to announce testing only after entries for the event had closed.

"Will be interesting to see if athletes withdraw from Daegu with illness or injury due to IAAF introducing all athletes to blood testing," she said on Twitter.

So who might pull out?

I wouldn't be surprised to see a certain leading American female sprinter pull out due to injury & sadly a Brit female sprinter...along with a host of Eastern European throwers!

You think a british female sprinter is on drugs

good god i hope not, how crap must she be without them

[iain]

British female sprinter?!
The article implies entries have closed
When are the entry lists out?

[devonian]

I put this on the doping section this morning but entirely agree this is really good news. To quote Katherine Merry and, I think, David Oliver:

Britain's former Olympic 400m bronze-medallist Katharine Merry hailed the decision by the sport's governing body the IAAF to announce testing only after entries for the event had closed.

"Will be interesting to see if athletes withdraw from Daegu with illness or injury due to IAAF introducing all athletes to blood testing," she said on Twitter.

So who might pull out?

I wouldn't be surprised to see a certain leading American female sprinter pull out due to injury & sadly a Brit female sprinter...along with a host of Eastern European throwers!

You think a british female sprinter is on drugs

good god i hope not, how crap must she be without them

That was also my thought about Bernice Wilson but she was on the juice

[paulouk83]

This is excellent news I hope london does the same!!!

[paulouk83]

I hope a certain previously banned american sprinter and Bulgarian woman suddenly vanish

[tootingmick]

Why anounce it, much better to catch them by surprise
when they get out there.
As stated in previous posts there may well be some pull outs
to avoid the test.
Must sign off got to ice a dodgy hamstring !

[devonian]

I hope a certain previously banned american sprinter and Bulgarian woman suddenly vanish

High jumper or 400m hurdler..or both?

[TheRealSub10]

The blood tests are used primarily for HGH and EPO so they will not be a deterrent in competition as HGH is of little use in comp and EPO has been replaced with autologous blood transfusions in recent years, which are almost completely undetectable except via biological passport (which is the reason for starting these tests now before London). So it's a nice PR campaign but will pose little to no deterrent to those who would cheat in competition.

[Flumpy]

I hope a certain previously banned american sprinter and Bulgarian woman suddenly vanish

High jumper or 400m hurdler..or both?

Neither obviously. I know exactly who he's talking about but have never been completely sold she's a cheat, although I wouldn't be remotely surprised.

[readtherules]

The blood tests are used primarily for HGH and EPO so they will not be a deterrent in competition as HGH is of little use in comp and EPO has been replaced with autologous blood transfusions in recent years, which are almost completely undetectable except via biological passport (which is the reason for starting these tests now before London). So it's a nice PR campaign but will pose little to no deterrent to those who would cheat in competition.

I was reading the posts in despair until I came to this one.
I 100% agree with it and endorse the PR slant.A PR slant that the earlier posters have taken hook line and sinker.Like listening to tittle tattle in the year 7 classrooms;grow up please.Athletes know about blood tests and if cheating will have fully factured such in.

We will now have a whole load of stupid posts about every athlete who withdraws.We all know to our frustration that such withdrawals are not unusual.Now we will have an overlay of suspicion and one that may get taken onward by the press.
Well done IAAF, your stupid PR stunt will bring the sport into further disrepute esp as withdrawals will be prior to the real action taking place.Lets take a further stupid view.That athletes who have withdrawn recently where tipped off.

There is no end to the lies and stupidity from all sides.

[Geoff]

The IAAF announced blood tests back in December:

Along with the haematological module which is now being implemented, the ABP comprises an endocrine module which could prove to be even more promising in the fight against doping, with potentially key biomarkers. It is in this context that an ambitious and unprecedented blood testing programme will be conducted at the forthcoming IAAF World Championships in Daegu with the aim of establishing the participants’ full ABP “fingerprint”.

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=58918.html

I still feel it is a great move and will help to deter some cheats in Daegu and more importantly in the year leading up to London. RTR stop being so derisory and contemptuous of people who want to see a clean and fair sport - even you have admitted you don't know everything!

[readtherules]

The IAAF announced blood tests back in December:

Along with the haematological module which is now being implemented, the ABP comprises an endocrine module which could prove to be even more promising in the fight against doping, with potentially key biomarkers. It is in this context that an ambitious and unprecedented blood testing programme will be conducted at the forthcoming IAAF World Championships in Daegu with the aim of establishing the participants’ full ABP “fingerprint”.

http://www.iaaf.org/antidoping/news/newsid=58918.html

I still feel it is a great move and will help to deter some cheats in Daegu and more importantly in the year leading up to London. RTR stop being so derisory and contemptuous of people who want to see a clean and fair sport - even you have admitted you don't know everything!

Geoff.
I want to see a clean and fair sport but cant accept stupid PR stunts that are counter productive. Yes lets have fully peer reviewed markers and not ones that can be manipulated by the clever dopers leaving the other less funded or non State helped behind.
How long ago were we promised fully working HGH tests.Yet many hailed these promises from the PR machine as heaven sent.

By and large I have been very polite.However the reaction to the IAAF notice too me over the top.

[readtherules]

Geoff.

Read this and esp look at the variables of training and collection in relation to training etc etc.Note that a temp recorder is only recommended .

Seems a minefield and one a good brief would soon desribe as quackary.

All highly subjective and subject to a whole range of unknown and unmeasureable variables.

http://www.iaaf.org/mm/Document/Antidop ... _20413.pdf

Perhaps no law is better than bad law.More money for more research is clearly needed.

[fangio]

Or perhaps the IAAF and WADA are keeping their research under wraps to be brought out at the court cases, rather than giving out all of the information to the athletes and chemists out there.

[readtherules]

Or perhaps the IAAF and WADA are keeping their research under wraps to be brought out at the court cases, rather than giving out all of the information to the athletes and chemists out there.

How can you depend on research to prosecute a case when that research has not been subject to publication and peer review ?

I would be facinated by your response.

[fangio]

Simple, if it is correct it is correct. Scitntific expert witnesses can put their view forward, the defence ones can put theirs forward. In addition limited peer review with confidentiality agreements can have been done, so as not to put the information intot he public domain, tests may be based upon well known principles for other tests etc. The question is whther it is better to have a test that the cheats know about and their chemists can work on circumventing, or better to have atest that the cheats don't know about right up to the point of the tests being conducted? Hmm let me see.

I don't see full publication and peer review as necessary prior to the tests being used on the athletics population who turn up at the World Champs. I couldn't care less if he peer review is done later when the cheats have already been tested if it means they did not have a chance to work out a way around it. I don't even care if they have no tests and are just pretending to deter cheats from competing. Anything which prevents cheats from competing woudl be good and give the clean athletes a better chance of winning is good.

[readtherules]

Simple, if it is correct it is correct. Scitntific expert witnesses can put their view forward, the defence ones can put theirs forward. In addition limited peer review with confidentiality agreements can have been done, so as not to put the information intot he public domain, tests may be based upon well known principles for other tests etc. The question is whther it is better to have a test that the cheats know about and their chemists can work on circumventing, or better to have atest that the cheats don't know about right up to the point of the tests being conducted? Hmm let me see.

I don't see full publication and peer review as necessary prior to the tests being used on the athletics population who turn up at the World Champs. I couldn't care less if he peer review is done later when the cheats have already been tested if it means they did not have a chance to work out a way around it. I don't even care if they have no tests and are just pretending to deter cheats from competing. Anything which prevents cheats from competing woudl be good and give the clean athletes a better chance of winning is good.

"If it is correct it is correct" Says tautological fangio.I could rest my case.

However I want to know how you can do limited peer review without it being published.Bit of a contradiction.

Better to have a test that complies with all current best practice.

However this seems to bypass that the clever cheaters and their national labs will all know about the tests already.It is a very small world out there for those close to it all.

[BigGut]

RTR stop being completely stupid. It isn't tautological. What is being said is very simple. They don't have to peer review and publish. If the science is correct then at the hearings of the cheating scum who ruin our sport then WADA will show that the science is correct. Not having it peer reviewed doesn't make it any less correct.

Limited peer review is also very simple. You write your paper, you then issue it to several leading lights within the scientific community for review, but with confidentiality clauses saying that they cannot divulge the contents. What is so hard to understand. To me your stance just looks like you want the drugs cheats to eb issued with a handbook on how to avoid testing positive, actually that is probably exactly what you want.

All you ever do is try to find ways of excusing cheats. I wish people like you would go and ruin another sport and leave athletics alone.

[javman]

Well good on the IAAF for doing this prior to the World Champs. It will be interesting to note how many athletes pull out with injuries! Whilst some will no doubt be bona fide, some will be for more devious reasons - simple solution is to test all of them who do pull out.

The clean ones will happily comply - those that have guilt will squirm through a legal process no doubt. There is nothing wrong with robust action. No system will ever be perfect but the Governing bodies need to do something and this should be seen as a positive step.

[boysen]

I suppose that those whose religious convictions bar the extraction of blood will have to forego the Championships?

[readtherules]

RTR stop being completely stupid. It isn't tautological. What is being said is very simple. They don't have to peer review and publish. If the science is correct then at the hearings of the cheating scum who ruin our sport then WADA will show that the science is correct. Not having it peer reviewed doesn't make it any less correct.

Limited peer review is also very simple. You write your paper, you then issue it to several leading lights within the scientific community for review, but with confidentiality clauses saying that they cannot divulge the contents. What is so hard to understand. To me your stance just looks like you want the drugs cheats to eb issued with a handbook on how to avoid testing positive, actually that is probably exactly what you want.

All you ever do is try to find ways of excusing cheats. I wish people like you would go and ruin another sport and leave athletics alone.

Fangio said."it is correct 'cos it is correct" Utter tautology.

Pre publication review is not what we are talking about .Peer review means that it has to be published and be examined (potentially) by peers.Having sent it to the publishers is meaningless as they may reject it.If they dont reject it then it gets published.
As for the science that bans people not being subject to peer review is simple wrong.If the science is demonstratably correct we have no way of knowing if they are cheats.
They publish all other science on tests.Why do they do this if it provides a handbook for cheats.

Again personal attacks rather than the subject matter.

I repeat that all clever cheats already know exactly where WADA is up to.

[readtherules]

Well good on the IAAF for doing this prior to the World Champs. It will be interesting to note how many athletes pull out with injuries! Whilst some will no doubt be bona fide, some will be for more devious reasons - simple solution is to test all of them who do pull out.

The clean ones will happily comply - those that have guilt will squirm through a legal process no doubt. There is nothing wrong with robust action. No system will ever be perfect but the Governing bodies need to do something and this should be seen as a positive step.

Please refer and deal with previous posts esp from the realsub10 ie a pr stunt

[readtherules]

I have posted that there is no requirement to have a temperature control monitor with blood samples.
Why has not one person commented on this ?

[Geoff]

I think this should now be moved to the doping section.