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Cost of Plastic Brits

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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby jjimbojames » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:45 am

iain wrote:^But what is the problem with that?

More admin, paperwork? That or maybe those territories don't want / have the necessary equipment / skills to set up an approved Olympic Committee, for the sake of a few athletes

Look at the St Kitts' delegation - more officials than athletes!
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby Guto Nyth Bran » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:29 am

jjimbojames wrote:
iain wrote:^But what is the problem with that?

More admin, paperwork? That or maybe those territories don't want / have the necessary equipment / skills to set up an approved Olympic Committee, for the sake of a few athletes

Look at the St Kitts' delegation - more officials than athletes!

It's definitely more the IOC than the IAAF.

Basically it's politics.
SpaIn objects to Gibraltar, Argentina and co. objects to the Falklands in the Olympics. Serbia and friends don't like the idea of Kosovo in there. There's also Chechnya, Trans-Dinistria, Northern Cyprus .... and dozens of other nearly countries.

The IOC has to draw a line on who competes at the Olympics and it chooses current UN membership as a requirement for new member countries, In fairness to them there isn't an easy solution.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby bevone » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:41 am

If the so called 'plastics' did get medals like they did indoors then it would be money well spent. Was it 5 out of 8 indoor world medals won with a plastic Brit in and did not stop the GB team proclaiming it was the most successful indoors ever.

Apart from the medals and a few performances, the GB team did not perform up to standard overall and in between Mo's performances, there were a heavy stream of athletes under performing with no explanation or even worse heavily injured. I thought there weren't to be any passengers - and there were a few good people left out of the team as well who may made finals. Even top statisticains thought we would get from 12-16 medals if they performed to standard but I thought we would get 8 medals even with a few days to go but to get no relay medals must be a first.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby SteveK26 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:16 am

So who, exactly, did 'underperform'.
I'll analyse my nine (pre - Games) shots at gold:
Men
Mo Farah 5000 GOLD
Mo Farah 10000 GOLD
Dai Greene 400H 4th
Greg Rutherford LJ GOLD
Rob Grabarz HJ Bronze
Phillips Idowu DNQ Not fit/ready

Women
Christine Ohuorugu Silver
Jess Ennis GOLD
Perri Shakes-Drayton eliminated in semi

So out of those, the only one I was REALLY disappointed with was Perri. Dai Greene also below par, but at least he made the final. None of us quite knew what shape Phillips would be in.

I dont think thats a bad result from the 'cream', and although there were disappointments from the others, there were also success stories as well.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby iain » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:49 am

Perri was disappointing but she was never a realistic shot at gold.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby mump boy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:12 pm

The only medal shots it think under performed where Perri and Shara and obvs the relays

The rest did ok

And there were many very encouraging performances that i took more pleasure from than just the medals

Clarke, Osagie, Smith, Pavey and Bleasdale, Weightman, Hitchon, KJT. I thought Freya Murray's 2.32 marathon was brilliant under the circummstances, Gemili ran superbly, Ross Murray is a grew talent and will have learnt a lot.

To be honest i'm not that bothered by the total medals, winning or losing them can be so arbitrary, especially as we sam to have made a team decision to just throw away relay medals (the idea that 8 medals with 1 gold is better is extremely disingenuous) what does excite me is the amazing young talent that we have in the most diverse range of events i can ever remember and how they will all be reaching their peak in 2016/17 :D
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby SteveK26 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:31 pm

^^^
Agreed.

A lot of talented newcomers blooded, most of which performed well.
4 golds has to be better than a clutch of lesser medals.

Cant wait to see how Gemili, K J-T and Osagie prrogress , just to name three. And hope to goodness Jodie Williams and Desiree Wilson move up to the next level, which I'm sure they will.
Hitchon and Okoye can go right to the top, and I'm a big fan of (both) Bleasdales.

Plenty to look forward to.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby jjimbojames » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:38 pm

Desiree Henry?. :wink:

Credit to her coach - he got her in great form for the WJ, from seemingly nowhere. An injury free winter behind her and Jodie and they look likely to be our top two, unless Abi can keep pushing on
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby fangio » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:44 pm

I like the look of Pozzi vs Clarke vs Sharman, and Greene vs Woodward vs Green or Yates or Davenport, Okoye vs Morse vs Duquemin, Jackson vs Sharp vs Judd, Weightman vs England vs Twell, Proctor vs Irozuru vs Ugen vs Sawyers to name a few match ups that I think will be interesting over the next 4 years.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby mump boy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:07 pm

SteveK26 wrote:^^^
Agreed.

A lot of talented newcomers blooded, most of which performed well.
4 golds has to be better than a clutch of lesser medals.

Cant wait to see how Gemili, K J-T and Osagie prrogress , just to name three. And hope to goodness Jodie Williams and Desiree Wilson move up to the next level, which I'm sure they will.
Hitchon and Okoye can go right to the top, and I'm a big fan of (both) Bleasdales.

Plenty to look forward to.


I forgot about Lawrence :D

and then those all those who didn't make it

Talbot
Ugen
Diamond (i know she was in relay)
Jackson
Judd
Gorecka
Byers

etc etc etc
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby SteveK26 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:53 pm

Indeed, Mump.
And Jess Judd has to be a VERY exciting talent. Probably our No. 1 next year?
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby iain » Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:56 pm

^Not sure about number one but I think she can get the qualifying standard (whether this will get her selected is another matter :P)
And I forgot about Diamond. A brave decision to move up to the 400m in Olympic year, I hope it will pay dividends in the future (and that she can run leg one :P)
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby SteveK26 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:24 pm

Jimbo
I have no idea who Desiree Wilson is!! :oops:
Of course I meant Miss Henry :)
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby mump boy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:47 pm

iain wrote: I hope it will pay dividends in the future (and that she can run leg one :P)


Oh no another 10 years of futile discussion about what might/could/didn't happen
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby jjimbojames » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:57 pm

mump boy wrote:
iain wrote: I hope it will pay dividends in the future (and that she can run leg one :P)


Oh no another 10 years of futile discussion about what might/could/didn't happen

Which is why we all love it, mump! :D Certainly, it's going to have to be a junior, as no one fom the senior ranks looks to be making any substantial progress :?
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby Occasional Hope » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:03 pm

Dai Greene also below par, but at least he made the final.


Plus (a) his time was faster than his World Championships winning one, and (b) I don't think anyone expected Felix Sanchez to make such a comeback (except maybe Sanchez himself). If not for the latter, Dai would have got bronze.

Most actually disappointing for me were Lisa Dobriskey and to a lesser extent Hannah England. I was also a little disppointed with the finals performances of Lawrence Okoye and Holly Bleasdale.

Andy Baddeley underperformed, but I kind of expected that.
Last edited by Occasional Hope on Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby mump boy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:05 pm

jjimbojames wrote:
mump boy wrote:
iain wrote: I hope it will pay dividends in the future (and that she can run leg one :P)


Oh no another 10 years of futile discussion about what might/could/didn't happen

Which is why we all love it, mump! :D Certainly, it's going to have to be a junior, as no one fom the senior ranks looks to be making any substantial progress :?


Desiree obvs :D

no 400m time but much stronger over 200m then 100m i see sub 50 400m runner :P
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby mump boy » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:10 pm

Occasional Hope wrote:
Dai Greene also below par, but at least he made the final.


Plus (a) his time was faster than his World Championships winning one, and (b) I don't think anyone expected Felix Sanchez to make such a comeback (except maybe Sanchez himself). If not for the latter, Dai would have got bronze.

Most actually disappointing for me were Lisa Dobriskey and to a lesser extent Hannah England. I was also a little disppointed with the finals performances of Lawrence Okoye and Holly Bleasdale.

Andy Baddeley underperformed, but I kind of expected that.


I don't think that's fair on 2 20 year olds who did their job by getting to the final and gaining experience. They we re both long shots doe medals and idd good

Perri and Shana were much more disappointing for me.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby Occasional Hope » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:14 pm

I just meant they disappointed *me*, and more with the actual height/distance achieved in the final, Lawrence when compared to his qualification rather than finishing position. But I do have hope for them both in future. Perri's probably about the same tbh.

And all our relay teams, obviously.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby moshimoshi » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:25 pm

ultragirl wrote:NO MEDALS FROM THE PLASTIC BRITS = waste of money and lost places for our athletes and another failiure of CVCs.


There were lots of 'plastic Brits' in other sports, no doubt that was also UKAs' fault :D .
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby kingmaker » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:52 pm

Maybe the original poster didnt have her tv on during the games? :D

What is a plastic Brit after all? Shara Proctor will be gone come January, Yammy like all the other sensible posters have pointed out has been here for quite a while with her family and where the plastic Brits where concerned in the team we really had no other options did we?

I personally would love to see a team full of UK resident, UK coached athletes at major championships but there simply aren't enough of the required standard at the moment, so stop whingeing and do something to resolve the situation.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby jjimbojames » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:18 am

Uk resident, UK coached - why?

It's no surprise that some of our sprinters and distance runners go abroad to try and find similar conditions to successful athletes - look at the winner of the men's marathon.

I couldn't care less where their coach was born - as long as they do a good job with the athlete. Yes, coach education needs work - but I don't buy the argument that every coach is just a training module from being the next Alberto Salazar, Stephen Francis or anyone else.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby jeremy1 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:37 am

mump boy wrote:
Occasional Hope wrote:
Dai Greene also below par, but at least he made the final.


Plus (a) his time was faster than his World Championships winning one, and (b) I don't think anyone expected Felix Sanchez to make such a comeback (except maybe Sanchez himself). If not for the latter, Dai would have got bronze.

Most actually disappointing for me were Lisa Dobriskey and to a lesser extent Hannah England. I was also a little disppointed with the finals performances of Lawrence Okoye and Holly Bleasdale.

Andy Baddeley underperformed, but I kind of expected that.


I don't think that's fair on 2 20 year olds who did their job by getting to the final and gaining experience. They we re both long shots doe medals and idd good

Perri and Shana were much more disappointing for me.


Precisely ...... I never understood why there was any excitement about Shana Cox as someone who would do the business at individual and Relay level.Perri will mature hopefully and learn to cope with expectations.

Bleasdale getting sixth at 20 was a big success not a disappointment, and I am amazed that any posters or fans actually expected such a neophyte to get a Medal; the same applies to Okoye, who all season has shown his raw talent but that does not win Discus medals. I think he did well to get into the final... far better than a man who I would never have picked.... the "myerscough" of javelin throwing with his 74 metre throw, worst of his season.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby TheRealSub10 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:55 am

jjimbojames wrote:Yes, coach education needs work - but I don't buy the argument that every coach is just a training module from being the next Alberto Salazar, Stephen Francis or anyone else.
Actually I've never met an effective coach who even credited a coach education system as playing even a minor part in their development. What's most important in coaching is doing your own research and networking with others and in that respect England Athletics have it completely right.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby yorkshire_best » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:46 pm

TheRealSub10 wrote:
jjimbojames wrote:Yes, coach education needs work - but I don't buy the argument that every coach is just a training module from being the next Alberto Salazar, Stephen Francis or anyone else.
Actually I've never met an effective coach who even credited a coach education system as playing even a minor part in their development. What's most important in coaching is doing your own research and networking with others and in that respect England Athletics have it completely right.


You obviously do not know where all the effective coaches are or should I say were before they were all bullied out of the sport. If EA have it right then we should have thousands of good coaches, but we do not. The old BAF coach education system in the NOE was very good and full of quality senior coaches who knew how to develop and educate new coaches before it was deliberately allowed to wither on the vine. Oh and of course Wilf paish developed a very large number of quality coaches when with the AAA. BAAAB, BAF and some independents during UKAs pathetic reign, as did a number of his counter parts. I was fortunate to have experienced the benefits of the NOE system and all the great tutors there from.

To make a biased opinion as you have means you have to be able to know an effective coach when you see one of any discipline, what an amazing extremely well travelled and knowledgeable person of all clubs you must be :roll:
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby sprintfan » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:51 pm

ultragirl wrote:NO MEDALS FROM THE PLASTIC BRITS = waste of money and lost places for our athletes and another failiure of CVCs.


So this was the start of the thread........and she's been conspicuous by her absence.

Is she a troll just winding us all up?
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby Flumpy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:05 pm

YES!!!

I don't know why people fall for it everytime.
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby trickstat » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:37 pm

SteveK26 wrote:Jimbo
I have no idea who Desiree Wilson is!! :oops:
Of course I meant Miss Henry :)



Perhaps you were subconsciously sidetracked by this woman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desir%C3%A9_Wilson
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby SteveK26 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:55 pm

Trickstat
Thanks for that! But unless Miss Wilson, (S African version!) , is a babe, I doubt your theory is correct. Cos I hate motor racing! :)
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Re: Cost of Plastic Brits

Postby MikeWinch » Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:23 am

Kipper, you are dead right.

School sport is the key to sustained development, leading to club recruitment not nannying, and then on to serious athletics with well trained coaches, and a fully integrated International future. A 'seamless pathway'.

Unfortunately the fragmentation, animosity, and degeneration of our sport since 'modernisation', and the extreme over emphasis on medals has created a dysfunctional system, with which none are happy with all of it, and few are happy with any of it.

It would now be sensible to look at all aspects of the Games and the future of the sport, and set up a proper universal development plan on the basis of a structural and financial independent audit, the results of which we could all subscribe to.

We have not had such an audit or plan since UKA started, and we hardly had one before that.

If as everyone says, our sport is now a business, then we cannot afford to ignore part of it, if it is to have a profitable future.
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