Will CVC really go now?...

[Kermit]

Bev, what you said in your last post is in fact part of the original blueprint from John Major's vision of what lottery funding should achieve.

Fangio, there is nothing stopping a part-time coach from taking on more work within their field to improve his/her finances. Chief executives are often part timers who are also chief executives within another company. If I had the opportunity to be on one of Malcolm's development programmes I would use the equipment provided to boost my finances in other fields of sports and strength & conditioning.

Geoff, The FA are responsible for the International teams and the development of football within England, Roy Hodgson is manager of the national team and the development of all levels of international football, but not regional or club. If he was then is salery would be much higher and his time with the national squad would be extremely limited.

There should be a national coaching co-ordinator endorsed by the elite national coach but not answerable to said elite national coach.

[Geoff]

There should be a national coaching co-ordinator endorsed by the elite national coach but not answerable to said elite national coach.

There is one, of sorts, now his name is Kevin Tyler. In a less centralised world of UK athletics the role of a future head coach would be different to now relying on a network and offering support, coordination and education. Of course, he/she would lead international teams but it would be a bit different to an international football team. They may bring together national squads and have a closer relationship with international athletes and their coaches.

[bevone]

fngio

10 centres 3 of them NIreland, scotalnd and wales - so already hae finding for four or five coaches

Birmingham, Loughborough, Sheffield, Manchester, London Lee valley, Eton, Gateshead, Bath

4 coaches each to cover the main events - 32 paid coaches - less than UKA and England pay I would guess

Also neearly all of these have universities with paid athletics staff and part time and volunteers so that can be tapped into or money could be found to pay some part timers

Some coaches could double up as coaches and mentors for more than one event.

There is choice for athlete to use there own regional centre or move when old enough to a centre of their choice where there is a group or one that they want to work with. Not all the best athletes want to train with each other - why do you think UKA has employed several coaches - sometimes as the same venue in the sprints and when we are looking at UK records etc - non are on the track and our sprints have been as bad as ever. I can assure you the top 5 or 6 discus throwers for example would not want ot train with each other all year- they did not when they went warm weather training together. This is where I think some posters on here - without being patronising -do not understand the sport - many top athletes train with other top athletes but usually if they do another event - or if you are running 200-400 - so you have someone to push you in the reps. Technical events is a little bit different because the one who lifts the most and run the fastest is not necessarily the best thrower s by you training with a rival and making him stronger when that is what he needs is you helping them while you may derive nothing from it - jut 2nd place next year! I have this conversation all the time. Athletes want me to coach them and object if another wants to join the group or wont join if certain rivals are in it.

This can work as it was working and expanding in cardiff until the new central model came in with the new administration and the jobs dried up and the lottery funded athletes went elsewhere and we were left with the shambles that is and will be with the current ceo and co Welsh athletics.

[TheRealSub10]

This is where I think some posters on here - without being patronising -do not understand the sport - many top athletes train with other top athletes but usually if they do another event - or if you are running 200-400 - so you have someone to push you in the reps. Technical events is a little bit different because the one who lifts the most and run the fastest is not necessarily the best thrower s by you training with a rival and making him stronger when that is what he needs is you helping them while you may derive nothing from it - jut 2nd place next year! I have this conversation all the time. Athletes want me to coach them and object if another wants to join the group or wont join if certain rivals are in it

This is so true. With perhaps the exception of Endurance (where pain suppression is an important part of performance and can be assisted by running in a group) apart from the feeling that 'you are in the right place because other good athletes are there' or peer2peercoaching (athletes coaching each other in the case where the coach is not really technical but more a motivator) there is no real advantage to training with people you will be competing with for medals.

Places like Loughborough and Lee Valley have the problem of creating the 'bubble' effect where athletes feel constant pressure from their peers and this undermines any advantage of brining them together. As an elite athlete you should just look for 1. a good coach who won't push you to injury, 2. an excellent therapy provider. 3. a suitable venue. Wherever this trinity exist you should consistently be able to produce elite athletes.

You could have super centres like Loughborough and Lee Valley that provide other facilities like Nutrition or Biomechanics but so long as other places exist with the necessary trinity (coach, therapy, venue) athletes will quite rightly choose not to all flock there.

My feeling is that for around £200k a year any good venue can set itself up as a place for elite athletics and the positive PR generated would more than pay for the investment. Instead of waiting for UKA to do it the venues themselves should get involved...

[fangio]

What would you pay for from the £200k?

How many coaches (if all events are to be covered without people moaning about the quality of the paid coach eg HJ coach coaching PV or that some events are being ignored eg no paid PV coach) woudl you pay for?

How much physio/doctor support?

How much paying for exclusive access time when the centre won't be availabel for public hire?

Bev, I think - without being patronising - some people have no idea how large distance squads are that train together. have a look at Mo's group in the US, or Rowlands. Yes some throwers may prefer to train alone, but have you noticed how many leading distance women are trained by partners who are also good runners, who probably run a numebr fo sessions with them.

[bevone]

TRS10
Good post - I entirely agree with you on every point you make. I think when we get down to the dirt and detail - the centralised model in 1 or two centres does not work for the masses. Loughborough has hundreds of athletes who are not served well. It has had many good throwers - javelin throwers who have been there and not succeeded or have after they have left. many times they will not train with each other! I know of local sprinters who have gone there and not been put in the top group and then lost interest in a lesser group being the hare for lesser runners. Big places like that you sometimes get swallowed up and do not get the specialist coaching you need

Fangio

You havent listened again - we do not need 10 specialist hj coaches, LJ, PV, HAmmer etc at all centres but runnign groups you are correcct can be based at all and if there is a particular good one where people get on, as adults thye may chose to join that one - ie choose. However technical events do not work like that. Look at steve rippon went to Scotland and has no world class people to coach and is a waste of resources in terms of PV coaching although he is their national manager. HE could have mentored coaches while taking an elite squad himself. I use him as a crude example as im not sure of all the ins and outs but when leaving loughbourhg, his two main athletes got new coaches and did not follow him. With respect I did mention running squads and in a previous post which I lost -- i did mention thing s like mo and radcliffe saying that as it is not technical, you could develop big running groups and then maybe look to specialise and sen others with mo. It works fangio and was working before cvc changed it. There is by the way - no rule to say you have t pay doctors and physios were many of them were nhs or priveate who would offer their services to local athletes on club nghts or book them in have been chatting with a friend to see of they could attend a certain club on club nights and use the facility as their base out side club nights as many private physio/massagers do. It just need someone to run and organise it.

[fangio]

Bev,

Ok, I have been listenign but I don't think the model is practical. If you are saying you don't need coaches at each centre, then you get eh complaints that events are being ignored.

If you only employ coaches whilst the athletes are there then you won't get het coaches, who wants to work at a centre where they can be sacked if their part time athetle, or a full time athlete with a working spouse gets moved for work, or when athletes go to uni.

How does a centre become a development centre if it has no coahces to develop the weaker events, surely it just becoems a centre to pay existing local coaches for doing what htey are already doing?

As ot the medical side, I asked what was goign to be paid for. I don't see why the elite atheltes, if full time, but not with their own lucrative sponsorship (i.e not Jess Ennis) woudl choose to train from a centre without top medical support. I don't see that getting a mate to do the odd physio session is the same levle fo support as they could get at a HiPAC, so why would the best go there, and if we are on about payign a mate that's somehtng i am sure you would actually rail against, jobs for the boys and all that.

[Kermit]

Fangio, if the best medical peeps are found in the HiPACs then why is the injury toll so high and why are our athletes (esp sprinters) continually injured?

RS10, the trinity should be a family - you forgot to add a Strength & Conditioning coach who may be able to prevent oversized or undersized (from a muscular point of view) athletes who can also help the athlete stay off the injury list.

[sidelined]

Bevone, Steve Rippon left Scotland for Finland ages ago.

[bevone]

thanks for that sidelined - makes my point maybe. fangio -hi again - sorry if i didnt make myself clear - but i siad 4 or 5 coaches at each centre covering at event areas as a throws coach can usually teach all the throws and there is no need for 10 full time javelin cpcahe s spread them where need. And nobody was suggesting mates do the medical i am talking about professionals and many of them offer their services at a discounted rat as they want to work with athletes ie qualified sports doctors and physios as that is how many of the centres worked. Where i worked they could not afford the good physio so the cheapest one who was in the process of graduating. So having a full time one provided us with more cost and less product and less good will . It works!

[fangio]

Kermit

I imagine that partly the answer is down to the same reason as why crime appears to be on the rise if you judge by convictions, the best medical staff are aslo the best at diagnosing early. Who knows how many athletes prior to the medical back up competed on undiagnosed injuries which shortened or reduced the quality of careers. In fact who knows how many competed with diagnosed injuries before central medical back up.

Bev

Sorry I thought the "chatting with a friend to get them booked in on a club night" (I am paraphrasing) was a suggestion of mates doing it. Must have misinterpreted it.

On the coaching, let me claarify then, you are sugeesting that 4-5 coaches cover the centres. Are they co-ordinating the events at the regions those centres are in, rather than coaching then? IFthat is the case then this is not a centre of excellence it's just 8 administrative centres with 32-40 people employed to co-ordinate. I would imagine that, under those circumstances, the athletes would largely not be training at the centres, and the coaches would most probably only be coaching the athetles who lived very locally to those centres. What would the incentive to train out of that centre (assuming it was an hours travel) be for the athletes, over and above training with their current coach at their current local venue? Especially if the coach at teh venue was a speciallist in one fo the other throws, jumps etc that was not your event?

[bevone]

fangio

The way you talk as if all the indoor centres in the UK are redundant and do nothing for the sport! The indoor areas over the winter are usually well used by people as far as 1hr away to train own their local caches and in some cases to meet with uni coaches or coaches who work out of there with a good reputation. Many clubs re well organised that they have qualified physio and masseurs on site who have bookings already made and can drum up some business but also do some work ith athletes which is a bit differnet from their private duties.

Lee Valley, Thames valley, manchester, Birmingham, bath, cardiff and even loughborough have athletes who are quite happy and get a good service from their local coaches and are happy not to be on lottery as they are not good enough and can cope with that. Admittedly, there are some centres where there are good athletes and do not have the coaching expertise they desire but if they want that , maybe when the are ready to go to work or university they can change their location if the are that dedicated. However, if there was a nearby centre with a specialist coach with good experience and or a mentor they have a good chance.

I am such a loser - I a going to make a mock plan and send it to you - with costings - then you can take it apart - sentence by sentence. ha ha ! Too much time on my hands!!!!

[Kermit]

Kermit

I imagine that partly the answer is down to the same reason as why crime appears to be on the rise if you judge by convictions, the best medical staff are aslo the best at diagnosing early. Who knows how many athletes prior to the medical back up competed on undiagnosed injuries which shortened or reduced the quality of careers. In fact who knows how many competed with diagnosed injuries before central medical back up.

Fangio that is a poor repost.

Almost all of our sprinters have been in the system for over an Olympic cycle and yet, like crime in a recession/depression, the injuries are increasing. In the last five years injuries have been missed or mis-diagnosed to the point that when the best UKA medical staff have found out what is going on the athlete have had to have operations. The rehab has been poor because they have only treated the injured area and not the areas that have supported the injured area, thus the athlete suffers a relapse.

If this is not true then our athletes would be competing more and their times would be improving.

[hank]

You need one very good physio to man a HiPac. The profession works on referal to specialists. A good physio would be able to deal with 95% of injuries and should consult others specialists outside the system for second opinions. It is not possible to get all specialists under one roof as the cycling system suggests, it is just far too expensive.

One thing I would insist on is that rub downs are performed by physios with a bonafied qualification. This woukld act as an early dection system.

With regards to the dynamic where athletes do not get on with each other mentioned by Bev and TRS10, I do find that a little unprofessional on the athetes part. Should we have a system that accommodates this, or just have higher expectations?

[Occasional Hope]

I have to mention Dan Pfaff, someone who I was told is more important than CVC, who has done a good job with Greg rutherford, Steve Lewis, Goldie until her injury and a few others. The athletes all speak very highly of him but once again if he was retained would more athletes move to him and, if so, we still have the conflict created through enforced transfers. There is a rumour he may be going to Japan.

In yesterday's Independent, there was an interview with Greg Rutherford where he said Pfaff was considering going back to Texas - and Greg would follow him:


"I think Dan's had a bit of a hard time in the UK," Rutherford said. "I don't think people were prepared to listen to what he had to say and it was down to some of the athletes to approach him, rather than coaches and staff.

"That's been tough for Dan. He's had a fantastic career. He's coached some great athletes and he's been doing so well with us. But when he came over to Britain people just didn't want to take on board what he had to say. I think because of that he's missing being at home in America. His family didn't come with him and he hasn't seen that much of his wife for the last few years. He's also got a grandchild now. I think he might be thinking about going back to the US. If he did go back, I would definitely go with him. As athletes you have to be serious about these things. If I want to continue to progress and win major medals, I need Dan in my corner. If he's going to live in America, I've got to do the same."



http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... rnalSearch

He's also a CVC supporter:

"I've told him multiple times now that I want him to stay," Rutherford said. "I'm hoping he understands that 99 per cent of the team really like him and think he's done a fantastic job. Bringing in was a stroke of genius."

[Geoff]

There is no doubt we have good coaches in this country including those brought in from overseas but the question inferred by almost every single post on this thread is whether we should have a transfer structure. This is the 'God Particle' of any future system whether you have regional and/or national centres.

Currently we have conflict and no single system but you can understand why. Apologies to Mike Holmes for raising him as an example again but in a transfer structure would he be required to pass KJT on to Toni Minichielo oe even Dan Pfaff. What if there was such a structure but KJT said she wanted to stay in Liverpool with Mike? Repeat this many times a year and you can see the problems. Even at regional level should Bevone pass his throwers on to another UKA employed coach in a regional centre?

If UKA try to put in a national/regional structure of salaried coaches with the expectation that athletes will transfer to them and at the same time ignore all the obvious issues relating to existing coaches then it will not work. It will not work for the sport as a whole with little trust, a lot of conflict and reducing numbers of coaches.

UKA have to take the bull by the horns and take a serious look at how coaching can be structured. Not just tinker with the very elite or just rely on coach education but address transfers, contracts, professionalisation, roles of clubs/universities performance centres etc. Some say it's not possible to devise such a system but I say it's not possible for our sport to develop without a radical change to the system. The details of which I am not sure about but I keep an open mind.

I still favour UKA supporting, coordinating and educating but they should take a lead on all the coaching issues raised above. I think at the highest level athletes should choose their coach regardless of whether they are in Texas, Oregon, Sheffield or wherever but we must find a way of supporting coaches in a structured way at local and regional level.

[boysen]

Even if the re-structuring means adding another 40 people to the Brum pay-roll? Surely a root and branch clear out is required across ALL the UKA format.

[sidelined]

Here's a key sentence from that Independent article about Dan Pfaff that Occasional Hope didn't quote:

However, the American's contract expires in December and Rutherford suspects he will return home, partly as a result of the resentment within sections of the British coaching community that greeted his arrival on a high salary.

There's nothing like taking a positive approach to the presence in our midst of a very knowledgeable coach, is there?

[Geoff]

Even if the re-structuring means adding another 40 people to the Brum pay-roll? Surely a root and branch clear out is required across ALL the UKA format.

I favour a much more streamlined UKA where the emphasis is on support and coordination. Below this I would like to see a more joined up structure which leans towards trust and cooperation but using a variety of funding sources to support coaches at all levels. Any future UKA head coach must be supportive of such a system which must be harmonious and joined up otherwise we will continue to have divided governing bodies, systems and structures.

Basic decisions need to be made such as do we encourage the transfer of athletes? Do we fund coaches at different levels? You can't have completely different systems at different levels!

[Kermit]

There is no doubt we have good coaches in this country including those brought in from overseas but the question inferred by almost every single post on this thread is whether we should have a transfer structure. This is the 'God Particle' of any future system whether you have regional and/or national centres..

I have not seen it in every single post, only yours.

There isn't enough money in the sport to have a transfer system, there are not enough professional clubs or competitions for that to happen. Therefore it is a non starter.

[Geoff]

Here's a key sentence from that Independent article about Dan Pfaff that Occasional Hope didn't quote:

However, the American's contract expires in December and Rutherford suspects he will return home, partly as a result of the resentment within sections of the British coaching community that greeted his arrival on a high salary.

There's nothing like taking a positive approach to the presence in our midst of a very knowledgeable coach, is there?

Dan is very good but of course you are going to get resentment if the majority of British coaches are doing it for nothing or for just the miserly odd handout. You have to look at the whole structure and ensure it dovetails together. In Dan's case it was about a short fix for London concentrating on a few athletes winning medals. That's great and we all want to win medals but the overall health of the sport is as important and the very wide divisions are counter productive.

I haven't got all the answers, no one has, which is why UKA must involve everyone in seeking a way forward but they seem to want to do it there way and create even more of a division. I would have no problem if Dan was our head coach but he must address the structure and fight for one that is fair and workable.

I wonder how much of a void there will be in UKA by the end of the year with many possibly moving or retiring?

[Geoff]

There is no doubt we have good coaches in this country including those brought in from overseas but the question inferred by almost every single post on this thread is whether we should have a transfer structure. This is the 'God Particle' of any future system whether you have regional and/or national centres..

I have not seen it in every single post, only yours.

There isn't enough money in the sport to have a transfer system, there are not enough professional clubs or competitions for that to happen. Therefore it is a non starter.

I have not said we should have a transfer system. I have said that many posts indicate this as a preferred option and of course UKA have tried to operate a transfer system. It doesn't work unless you have a fully professional system which as you say is unaffordable. So you are very much mistaken when reading my posts.

I have repeatedly said UKA should support, coordinate and educate. That is not a transfer system. I have supported a regional aproach but raised the issue of whether even at this level you can operate a transfer system and stated as an example wheth Bev would be happy to pass on his athletes to a regional coach. It wouldn't work.

There is funding available to support coaches and many ways positions can be joined together. The 'God Particle' is how to join up all the coaches within the structure!

[bevone]

The comment about athletes not wanting to train with each other is not unprofessional - it is that sometimes athletes are used as fodder and nobody wants to be the fodder. Only the top athletes make the money so why would you want to train with someone who benefits from you and not vice versa. I gave the example in the field events. Last year I know a athlete who left a UKA coach for Dan Pfaff because he wanted more technical input but has not progressed. I am not putting a downer on what Rutherford has said as he has been a vociferous supporter but he has coached many of top athletes and has had no impact. He has been paid a lot of money and handed our best athletes - not a terribly hard job! 8.31 Olympic champion - are you going to convince us that his existing coach could not have achieved that. There is luck involved and with 10 or so athletes you have to have some luck some time. However, I was a great achievement for Rutherford and really well done to the man!

Also Rutherford was quoted as saying 99% of the athletes want him to stay - maybe he has his happy goggles on - as it is quite well known that CVC is unpopular among athletes and coaches even within his system and many are looking for a new way at present. There seems to be a policy of selecting people who he likes or who suck up to him and his inner circle and not one built upon ability or achievement. This lack of transparency will possible be what he will be remembered for and upsetting all areas of the sport. Nobody minds a change in the sport but they hope it would be for the best and bringing in people who added nothing to the sport will be his legacy.

Regarding the issue of athlete transfer - well lets deal with some truths shall we. I left Wales, was not allowed to apply for the throws coaching job and instead they employed a guy who had made himself unpopular within the group for one reason or another. While in Wales, athletes I coached broke all age group discus records and some UK ones and most of the shot ones in 3 years. This coach I assume is in charge now of the athletes. He has never coached anyone over 50m in the discus event - the U15 lad threw over 50m as did the U17, U20 U23 an senior threw over 60m so what is this guy going to offer them. Same in the shot where his best athlete he has ever coached threw 16m with a 5kg and Wales have 16-18m throwers in various age groups. SO how is this an improvement as Geoff alluded to? This coach is a development coach at best - but has worked closely with Pickering -- so may I allege that he was parachuted into this role. There is nothing wrong with my coaching or me as a person, I am not a threat to anyone I coach, I do not enter into inappropriate relationships with my athletes, I do not interfere with athletes home life's or tell them who to go out with. I seem to have been rather successful with the athletes I have coached providing value added. However, the NGB decided that a policy of spite as shown in this case - seems to be a continued theme. John Trower, a man who had coached world record holders and been a main player in uKA applied for the Welsh national coaching job prior to the current one and they gave it to a dan faff, CVC, Kevin TYler sponsored USA coach who was previously at a small US college as an assistant throws coach. HE was predictably not up to the task but how did he get the job ahead of JT? This everyone out there is how UKA had gone about its business (yes it influences the nations as well) and why it has upset so many because it has influenced basically every appointment with many filled with people already pre-selected.

[hank]

I am one who does not see how we can have an accountable head coach if athlete transfer does not exist. A number of coaches have been employed to coach olympic prospects, so obvously they are looking to recruit top athletes.

I know there was talk f changing the coaching code iof conduct so that poaching was no longer forbiden, I am not sure if this has happened. It would have at least been honest if it did, becouse the current system relies on athletes moving on.

The system is a mess, and Nigel is just one who has been affected. Thankfully Nigel is still around, but many have actually walked, regardless of what some people claim. Others are still coaching but on their terms with only a handfull of athletes. Imagin how much stronger the system would be if many of our talented coaches felt motivated into making a full contribution.

I do believe however that in a professional system the issue of tranasfer takes a back seat. I don't hear too many school teachers complaining when one of their students wins a place at oxbridge.

Now we can't of course professionalise each club out there, that would be impossible. What we could do though is fund hubs, or super clubs to identify talent from schools athletics, woow them away from other sports, and attempt to coach them to a level where they transfer to CVCs programme.

[SteveK26]

Perhaps what we need is an athlete 'trade union'.
Athletes that dont wish to move to a new coach shouldn't be pressured into doing so, especially with threats of loss of funding, (if indeed thats whats happening?).

[Damocles]

John Trower, a man who had coached world record holders and been a main player in uKA applied for the Welsh national coaching job prior to the current one and they gave it to a dan faff.

Bevone. (Frank)

Usual rubbish I see. When was Dan PFAFF ever the Welsh National Coach?

[Damocles]

Regarding the issue of athlete transfer - well lets deal with some truths shall we. I left Wales, was not allowed to apply for the throws coaching job.

Bevone (Frank)
Why were you 'not allowed' to apply. Same old, same old. just infer stuff with no substance behind it. Who said you couldn't and why didnt you apply anyway so that they would have to give you feedback.If you didn't apply, youll never get the job. Whining about it on here where no-one in authority reads is pretty pointless.
I suppose youll do youre usual and refuse to answer an anonymous poster, when 99% of the people you do answer are exactly that, including you. Pathetic

[Damocles]

instead they employed a guy who had made himself unpopular within the group for one reason or another. While in Wales, athletes I coached broke all age group discus records and some UK ones and most of the shot ones in 3 years. This coach I assume is in charge now of the athletes. He has never coached anyone over 50m in the discus event - the U15 lad threw over 50m as did the U17, U20 U23 an senior threw over 60m so what is this guy going to offer them. Same in the shot where his best athlete he has ever coached threw 16m with a 5kg and Wales have 16-18m throwers in various age groups. SO how is this an improvement as Geoff alluded to? This coach is a development coach at best - but has worked closely with Pickering -- so may I allege that he was parachuted into this role.

Bevone (Frank)

Name the man who are talking about, your very ready to name Pickering.

How did this man make himself unpopular?

'This coach I assume' you assume. You assume an awful lot and pass it off as fact.

'So may I allege' No. state the facts.

Bet you dont answere this one either.

[Damocles]

There is nothing wrong with my coaching or me as a person, I am not a threat to anyone I coach, I do not enter into inappropriate relationships with my athletes, I do not interfere with athletes home life's or tell them who to go out with. I seem to have been rather successful with the athletes I have coached providing value added. However, the NGB decided that a policy of spite as shown in this case.

Bevone (Frank)
I dont know you. but what what I've read on here and some of the people I've spoken to and your constant whining that the world is against you. Id say that there is something wrong with you as a person and you need some help. As your athletes have left you, or you've abandoned them, it would seem that all was not right there as well. Not everything can be a conspiracy by the NGB's. You must have done somethings wrong? You've said your unemployed, UKA's fault is it? Look to yourself for a solution.

[bevone]

Damacles - you are such a deceitful idiot - do you think anyone has fallen for your continual misquoting

you said 'John Trower, a man who had coached world record holders and been a main player in uKA applied for the Welsh national coaching job prior to the current one and they gave it to a dan faff.

notice the full stop -put in by you - what is a dan pfaff- doesnt make sense

This is what I wrote

John Trower, a man who had coached world record holders and been a main player in uKA applied for the Welsh national coaching job prior to the current one and they gave it to a dan faff, CVC, Kevin TYler sponsored USA coach who was previously at a small US college as an assistant throws coach.

What sort of useless , thick twat does that and thinks he can pass it off as fact.

Notice no full stop after Dan Faff. You know I am Nigel Bevan as the discription of who I coach gives it away everyone calls me that so why are pretending I am someone else. Bevone like jav sam is a nick name not an anonymous one. There is something wrong with you - you only come on here to attack me and anonymously you gutless waste of space - maybe you should look in the mirror you cowardly troll. Everything I have said is fact and you can look up the new welsh coach and ask him where I was wrong about him. I do not wish to hear any more crap from you . I am really interested to see why it is you are picking on me/ stalking me. ALL your posts have been in response to me!

Go crawl back from whence you came.