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Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of gold

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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby jeremy1 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:36 am

Good to see a few people talking sense.

If PI is quite happy to make money from endorsements like many other athletes around the globe, such that I or others go out and buy what he is flogging then he is not a fully private citizen like me; then I have every right to know whether he is fit to represent his country.

I think it is silly nonsense to keep repeating the mantra about confidentially. There are far greater athletes/ sportsmen than Phillips Idowu who keep the public informed when they are injured espececially in athletics e.g. Bolt is quite happy to talk of his state of health. When an athlete like Ennis gets a small or larger injury it is not treated like a state secret.

PI is a man who has little common sense and has not grown up as an adult. He is as always a clown, WC not withstanding.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby mump boy » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:29 am

Whether Phillips is injured or not has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of you

I agree that it might be preferable if UKA and BOA were informed but that is between them and Phillips as is his relationship with his sponsors.

Phillips is a grown man and our most bemedalled current athlete, he doesn't need funding, he doesn't need UKA medical back up or coaching and has earned to right to prepare in anyway he sees fit.

If i was him would i have handled things differently ? Yes but what you lot think on the matter is entirely inconsequential
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby AllanW » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:59 am

Dear mumpboy, I have the greatest of respect for your contributions so please don’t take anything in this post to be a personal jab.

mumpboy; ‘Yes but what you lot think on the matter is entirely inconsequential’

If by that you mean Idowu will take no notice of anything said here then I might agree with you; he seems to find disregarding any opinions other than his own to be a comfortable way to operate. But if you also mean that any opinions expressed here, not just on this particular topic but on any threads on this board to be inconsequential, I’ll have to mildly disagree. We could discuss exactly what ‘consequence’ they may hold but I maintain it would not be zero because to a lesser or greater extent the people who frequent this forum, let alone the ones who go further and comment, not only have an interest in the sport but play some part in it as well. Whether as competitor, coach, supporter, administrator, fund-raiser, advertiser or fan, the people here can and do have some influence on the shape and size of the sport in this country and maybe further afield. In aggregate that is by no means inconsequential.

mumpboy; ‘If i was him would i have handled things differently ? Yes’

And that was my only point. You, I and I venture to suggest most other people and especially most other athletes would have acted in the same circumstances quite differently. Idowu has chosen his own course and it is a deliberately antagonistic and lonely one. Time will tell whether he manages to achieve a happy ending but I’m a fan of this piece of wisdom;

‘You can be a pain in the ass as much as you like as long as yer winnin’, most folk will put up with it; the crunch comes when you don’t win.’

mumpboy; ‘Phillips is a grown man’

Then he should be big enough to admit and correct his own mistakes rather than have them pointed out to him.

mumpboy; ‘Whether Phillips is injured or not has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of you’

Not true, I’m afraid. He is a member of the Great Britain Olympic Team and I’m a British citizen; he has been chosen to represent me and everyone in this country. It’s an honour whether he treats it as such or not. On my behalf, his team management, officers, staff and fellow teammates deserve to know whether he is injured or not and whether he is likely to compete. Be clear; I don’t demand that I should know just that the properly constituted people who hold the responsibility on our behalf to run the team (whatever we may think of them) have an interest in that information and are alerting us all that Idowu is failing to keep them informed. It does have something to do with me, sir.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Flumpy » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:14 pm

sidelined wrote:I don't know why everyone is getting so hysterical about Phillips Idowu. All he's done is stick with the medical team he has been using for years, and stay within reach of them. The melodrama has all been created by CVC, the BOA and the media. There are still nearly two weeks till the qualifying of the men's triple jump on 7 August. The state of his injury is none of our business, and could be completely transformed in the next 13 days.


ALL OF THIS^^^
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Rapunzel1975 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:44 pm

Flumpy wrote:
sidelined wrote:I don't know why everyone is getting so hysterical about Phillips Idowu. All he's done is stick with the medical team he has been using for years, and stay within reach of them. The melodrama has all been created by CVC, the BOA and the media. There are still nearly two weeks till the qualifying of the men's triple jump on 7 August. The state of his injury is none of our business, and could be completely transformed in the next 13 days.


ALL OF THIS^^^

Ditto
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby sidelined » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:42 pm

And another thing: Phillips Idowu has described his injury - a trapped nerve leading from the back of his knee to his hip - and his medical records have been sent to the BOA. What more does anybody want?

He's a great athlete, I've never seen him be anything other than charming when interviewed, and he does voluntary work for several organisations, which was why he was carrying the torch in London.

As far as I can see it is CVC who is the one who is 'unprofessional': I don't think it is right or wise to slag off athletes in public the way he does.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby AllanW » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:53 pm

As the comment by sidelined (for whom I have much respect) seems to be gathering so much support let’s have a look at it in detail;

sidelined; ‘I don't know why everyone is getting so hysterical about Phillips Idowu.’

Far from everyone, in fact no one is getting hysterical about Idowu. Some people are expressing their opinions but I see no hysterics going on. Would anyone who supports this comment care to point to some evidence for it, please? Wailing, gnashing of teeth, rending of garments, you know, hysterical reactions. Or could this be a little exaggerated, do you think?

sidelined; ‘All he's done is stick with the medical team he has been using for years, and stay within reach of them.’

Is that all? Can you not understand what else his current behaviour has achieved or is this comment wilfully ignoring what else he has done? He has not competed since June; he has pulled-out of every competition he was scheduled for in the run-up to the OG; he has failed to attend the training camp in Portugal; he has failed to share information about his physical condition with team management and staff let alone his team-mates; he has created a blizzard of press speculation entirely by himself as a result of his choice to conduct himself in this manner; if all he HAD done was stick with a known medical team no one would be having this discussion but as it is he has done plenty of other things that this comment seems to gloss over.

sidelined; ‘The melodrama has all been created by CVC, the BOA and the media.’

Really? Idowu is the innocent party in all this, is he? Poor ickle boy being picked on by the big nasty foreigner, doctors, reporters and general public? On the contrary this story is entirely within his own control, was generated entirely by his own actions and its course dependent almost entirely upon his own choices. Do you think for one second that the Team Management, doctors, reporters and general public would have acted as they have without the fuel that Idowu’s behaviour has supplied?

sidelined; ‘There are still nearly two weeks till the qualifying of the men's triple jump on 7 August.’

Correct. I can wholeheartedly agree with this sentence.

sidelined; ‘The state of his injury is none of our business,’

Incorrect. Ibid

sidelined; ‘and could be completely transformed in the next 13 days.’

We don’t know that, do we? Neither his team doctors nor his team management let alone us poor plebs of the public have any information about this issue, do we? Unless you have some inside information then you are speculating without foundation here.

sidelined; ‘And another thing: Phillips Idowu has described his injury’ ‘and his medical records have been sent to the BOA’

Now. At last. Progress.

I know a number of posters here have no love for CVC but please don’t let that blind you to the juvenile posturings that Idowu is indulging himself in.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Charlie Boy » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:04 pm

I accept that the best way to treat the injury is to stay in London.

mump boy wrote:Whether Phillips is injured or not has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of you


If PI and CVC don't want it in the public domain then stop putting there.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby sidelined » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:12 pm

Allan w, I'm not going to argue with you. I'll retract "hysterical" if you like, and say I still don't understand why you and others are so exercised - if that's a more acceptable word - about this issue.

One general point, though: it's Phillips Idowu's job to jump into a sand pit as far as he can. It's the job of CVC, UKA and the BOA to make it as easy as possible for him to do so effectively. As anyone who saw the recent documentary about Victoria Pendleton will know, sometimes sticking rigidly to rules and protocols is not the most effective way of getting the desired result.
Last edited by sidelined on Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby AllanW » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:27 pm

sidelined wrote: As anyone who saw the recent documentary about Victoria Pendleton will know, sometimes sticking rigidly to rules and protocols is not the most effective way of getting the desired result.


Couldn't agree with you more :)
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby SteveK26 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:57 pm

Well, nobody is going to ignore the triple jump at these Games, eh !! :)
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby ultragirl » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:16 pm

I never thought of it in that way steve, Triple jump could now be the most watched event at the Olympics, maybe P.I wanted to get everyone to watch him take gold 8) :lol: :wink:
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby chaz_78 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:16 pm

This Idowu saga seems to still be rumbling on. The head coach and his own coach know nothing about what's going on?! :?

Doesn't seem the ideal preparation does it, but I suppose if anyone can swagger in to the games and brush it off then it's Phillips

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/au ... CMP=twt_gu
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby mump boy » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:21 pm

CVC needs to shut the flip up

His constant need for attention is embarrassing, can't he do anything in private

seriously is this an appropriate statement to make to the world

"Aston has been involved in sessions that [Idowu] couldn't complete because of injury…

I've fully supported his tough guy act but his lack of people skills, inability to communicate in any other way, as well as a total breakdown in communication with a significant amount of the team, leads me to believe it's time he went no matter that the results at the OG.

To be a heard coach you need to be able to relate to different people in different ways, it is up to you to be flexible to get the best out of people and it certainly isn't your role to castigate people in the press and creat unnecessary headlines 2 days before the biggest event in their lives is about to start :x
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby fchd » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:02 pm

This whole situation reminds me most of Perec pre-Sydney 2000.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Geoff » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:26 pm

The comparison with Perec is probably a good one. This is more than just a simple injury and fallout with CVC as he's hardly seen Aston Moore, his coach, in more than 2 months plus as we heard today he hasn't even spoken to him for over 2 weeks. He is not playing mind games. It is not just because he's injured. It is not just because he's fallen out with CVC. It is not because Phillips is just being Phillips.

I have no idea what shape he is in, physically and mentally, and no one can be sure he will actually compete. There is, obviously, more to this than we know but I hope he can resolve his troubles in time to compete at his best.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Ursus » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:26 pm

sidelined wrote:One general point, though: it's Phillips Idowu's job to jump into a sand pit as far as he can. It's the job of CVC, UKA and the BOA to make it as easy as possible for him to do so effectively. As anyone who saw the recent documentary about Victoria Pendleton will know, sometimes sticking rigidly to rules and protocols is not the most effective way of getting the desired result.

Maybe not for that individual, but there's the whole team dynamic to consider.

AllanW wrote:mumpboy; ‘Whether Phillips is injured or not has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with any of you’

Not true, I’m afraid. He is a member of the Great Britain Olympic Team and I’m a British citizen; he has been chosen to represent me and everyone in this country. It’s an honour whether he treats it as such or not. On my behalf, his team management, officers, staff and fellow teammates deserve to know whether he is injured or not and whether he is likely to compete. Be clear; I don’t demand that I should know just that the properly constituted people who hold the responsibility on our behalf to run the team (whatever we may think of them) have an interest in that information and are alerting us all that Idowu is failing to keep them informed. It does have something to do with me, sir.


With Allan 100% on this. And in the bigger picture, who funds the Grand Prix which pays him so well...Aviva, of which I am a shareholder. Who pays their ticket money to watch him....oh I do too. Has PI ever received lottery funding...yep I play that as well. The point is that one way or another there are many stakeholders in PI, and as Allan points out, while PI owes nothing to any of us personally, it is incumbent on him to deal professionally with those in the appropriate office....and vice versa.

None of this reflects well on anyone.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby jeremy1 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:03 pm

Even the PI's coach apparently does not know whats happening to his athlete or whether he is representing him at the Stadium; the bloke's gone weird in his head; how dare an athlete treat the Public, his Federation and the Selectors with such juvenile behaviour. What other great athletes in the OG would assume they can get away with his appalling behaviour.

I hope UKA never select him again or pay his medical bills and give him nice fat cheques for appearance all of which comes from the allotment of money made to UKA, I presume. 12 years since the Sydney Games is quite sufficient of Phillips Idowu.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby jeremy1 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:15 pm

mump boy wrote:CVC needs to shut the flip up

His constant need for attention is embarrassing, can't he do anything in private

seriously is this an appropriate statement to make to the world

"Aston has been involved in sessions that [Idowu] couldn't complete because of injury…

I've fully supported his tough guy act but his lack of people skills, inability to communicate in any other way, as well as a total breakdown in communication with a significant amount of the team, leads me to believe it's time he went no matter that the results at the OG.

To be a heard coach you need to be able to relate to different people in different ways, it is up to you to be flexible to get the best out of people and it certainly isn't your role to castigate people in the press and creat unnecessary headlines 2 days before the biggest event in their lives is about to start :x


Total nonsense as to be expected. Forget the fan worship. Don't blame CVC on this ; the stupidity of PI knows no bounds.

The National Coach has every right to talk about athletes and their state of health when discussing our athletes representing GB in the OG. and its so weird to read that posters think he is a super private person, about whom not one solitary word can be spoken :roll: :roll: .

Not in the 21st Century you aren't; athletes these days are public property; its not the 1930s or even the 1960s; its a different world .
Strange that the worlds greatest athletes whom we all admire are quite open with info about their state of health. If he had been fit during the two month build up we would have seen the guy competing; he has been obviously struggling.
Good to see that Paula made it plain she was in trouble and did not play games , in the same way .
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby TheRealSub10 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:29 pm

mump boy wrote:CVC needs to shut the flip up, His constant need for attention is embarrassing, can't he do anything in private
I think in this case this will have been the final interview before the media blackout during the games. I'm not sure it is so much self publicity as his job to do interviews. Of course he could answer the question differently but it's his style to tell it like he sees it.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Breeze » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:15 pm

I agree with those who condemn CVC's totally unprofessional behaviour. To intentionally try to undermine and humiliate one of our best hopes for a gold medal at this press conference is beyond belief. Irrespective of all the ridiculous clamour to alienate Phillips Idowu, the most important matter is that the athlete performs at his best in the Olympics. CVC has had his nose put out of joint because Phillips does not cosy up to him and run to him for approval. Phillips and his own coach are the people who know what is best for him. This is not a football team. I know we all want to support Team GB, however, it is not a team sport. It is an individual sport and all Phillips needs to do is to prepare for his individual performance. Those that decry him should consider whether they would rather see him join the rest of the team and perhaps ruin his recovery/preparation; or stay at home and give himself the best opportunity of competing. Phillips is not keeping another athlete, with any chance of a medal, out of the team. Leave him alone to prepare for the biggest sporting occasion of his life. It might not work out but if it does it will not be anything to do with Team GB and a Head Coach with a grudge who wants to see one of our best athletes fail. He should be hanging his head in shame. His remarks were an outrage and hopefully he will go after the Olympics.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby ultragirl » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:18 pm

CVC is a green grocer what more do you expect :lol:
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby AllanW » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:25 am

Breeze wrote: Irrespective of all the ridiculous clamour to alienate Phillips Idowu


You have the causality exactly backwards; everyone is reacting to the circumstances Idowu is creating, they are not creating them. He alone is the well-spring of any controversy. Without his extraordinary behaviour, without his strange dislocations of competitive attendance, without his disturbingly erratic communications (or lack of them) no-one would be saying a damn thing. I cannot take seriously anyone who believes that CVC or anyone on his team would deliberately set out to destroy an athlete whose results are in their own interests to maximise.

You and others may have a problem with CVC's management style but is he the one who has pulled Idowu out of most of his competitions this year? Is he the one who failed to perform when he has turned up? Is he the one who has failed to communicate with his friend and coach Moore? Is he the one who has failed to keep the team notified of his progress? Is he the one who has failed to repay the support given by sponsors, funding bodies and the public so far? Get real.

I'm not here to blow CVC's trumpet, he seems capable enough of doing that on his own behalf, but I resent being told that I'm persecuting a highly-funded and supported athlete who seems to be doing his best to alienate all those people around him who have indeed provided all the support, good wishes and funding he has enjoyed so far. If he is foolish enough to believe everything comes to him along a one-way street he is deluded and I hope those around him who he deems worthy of response can start to help him realise that simple and unavoidable fact.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby AllanW » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:34 am

ultragirl wrote:CVC is a green grocer what more do you expect :lol:


Do you ever think it reasonable for you to play the ball rather than the player? Just asking.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby ultragirl » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:14 am

Let us put things into perspective instead of trying to be armchair psycholgists :wink: (and bad ones at that!)

Phillips is doing what Phillips wants to, and he like every other athlete has the right to follow thier own paths, as most in the past have done, and done so highly successfully. The problem lays with the overburdening NGB and a headcoach deficient of vital management skills, both of whom need athletes and need them to be succesful in order to justify their existances and high salaries.

I fully support Philips right to choose how he approaches his Olympic challenge and his injury challenges and I wish him all the luck in the world. UKA do not have any magic wands and history has shown through the likes of Johnathan Edwards that holding camps are not a neccesity neither are NGBs in orderto win Gold medals and break world records....fact!
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby AllanW » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:25 am

ultragirl wrote:fact!


Is it nice to always believe you know better, that everything you think is right, always?
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby jjimbojames » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:29 am

I see both sides, but the longer this goes on, the more PI seems to be in the middle of something of his own making.

If PI fails, it's CVC/UKA's fault, if he wins, it's nothing to do with them, is an argument that doesn't cut it with me I'm afraid. He is either playing a very shrewd game or is desperately in need of help - but seems to us outsiders like he's either getting it from unknown sources or doesn't want to ask for/accept it - why on earth would he ignore Aston otherwise? Governing body aside, that is a major slight on someone who has taken him to much success in recent years.

Ultragirl - this is not Sydney and PI is not Jonathan Edwards - this is not the time for (yet another) anti-UKA rant - one swallow does not make a summer and there is plenty of examples for both sides on this one
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby Laps » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:04 am

What did we all do before the media created controversies out of nothing much.
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby mump boy » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:00 pm

AllanW wrote:
Breeze wrote: Is he the one who has failed to repay the support given by sponsors, funding bodies and the public so far?
.


What a failure :roll:


Competitor for Great Britain and England

Olympic Games
Silver 2008 Beijing Triple jump

World Championships
Gold 2009 Berlin Triple jump
Silver 2011 Daegu Triple jump

European Championships
Gold 2010 Barcelona Triple jump

Commonwealth Games
Gold 2006 Melbourne Triple jump
Silver 2002 Manchester Triple jump

World Indoor Championships
Gold 2008 Valencia Triple jump

European Indoor Championships
Gold 2007 Birmingham Triple jump

Continental Cup
Bronze 2010 Split Triple jump
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Re: Phillips Idowu talks injury speculation, Confidence of g

Postby javman » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:55 pm

From all of this I have lost massive respect for PI. The last nail in the coffin is how he appears to have treated his coach. Certainly from my perspective this is not on. Aston is a good bloke and doesn't deserve to be treated as such.

CVC interaction in all of this is typical of him. He is a hard bloke who expects things to be done his way. Perhaps slightly autocratic in his style and he does say it how he sees it. I am neither a fan nor a detractor, I really don't know him well enough.

As for PI, if he wins gold (or indeed a medal of any colour) then I suppose the end justifies the means. If he doesn't medal, then he will only have himself to blame. The really interesting bit will come post Olympics, or post his event, when I am sure PI will vent his spleen.
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