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London Diamond League 2012

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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby merito » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:25 am

This is a great debate with, hopefully, a medal pending.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:04 pm

Flumpy wrote:
mump boy wrote:
this is my dream scenario

EC 51
TBO 49.2 :D
Lee 50.2
Perri 48.8

3.19.20

OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL :D :D


Only 3:19.20 is not going to win the Gold medal :(


But in ky dream US drop the baton !! :P
Last edited by mump boy on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:10 pm

SteveK26 wrote:
[quote="iain"
Steve just being a good hurdler doesn't automatically make you a great relay runner. TBH Dai is probably one of my least favourite athletes so I am probably biased against him, but 'not run enough relays to tell he's crap' is not a good argument. Otherwise why not pop in Nathan Woodward too

Iain, you're a sensible guy, lets have a sensible argument. :)
Greene isn't a 'good' hurdler. He's a great hurdler.
He has never been 'crap' in a relay, but could have run better. Thats past. We are talking about now.
I take it your comment about Nathan was a joke?
Whether you like Greene or not shouldn't alter your judgement about whether he can help us win an Olympic medal.

If you want the safe option, and are just hoping for a bronze, then leave him out. (he MIGHT run badly).
But if you want to (maybe) re-live the 1991 moment, you have to have the man who COULD give the team a low 44 split.
Even if he ran badly he would probably still be as good as Conrad or Rob Tobin.


Kris Akabusi was a sub 45 400m runner and veteran of relay running. I'm not convinced Dai has the flat speak to add too much the relay and he hasn't demonstrated amazinfg form in relays either.

I'm all for

Nigel
Conrad
Jack
Martyn

I'm all for adding a hurdelr to the relay Chris Rawlinson, Matt Elias and Reece have all great legs in the past but i've not seen anything from Dai to demonstrate he would be the same. I wish he's run a few relays this year becasue obvs he has the potential to be great but who would you take out of the above to ??
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:19 pm

SteveK26 wrote:Jimbo
I'm with you on three quarters of the team; and I also think Jack Green is a must for the team.
But I think Dai is a much better play than Conrad. He offers the possibility of a low 44 leg, which Conrad doesn't.
Flumpy was talking about guarantees for the relay....there is no such thing. Even Rooney ( a great and consistent relay runner) could blow it on the day, as could anyone. But if you want a foursome that COULD take down the Americans, it has to include Dai, and he has to run a low 44. Conrad can't do that, solid though he may be.


On what basis could Dai offer a low 44 !! there is no evidence for that at all

I don't think any of us have an expectation on 'taking down the Americans' !! :?
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby iain » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:29 pm

Dai's only relay splits on Po10 are:
09 WC Berlin - 3rd - 45.83 (Hurdles 48.27)
06 Glasgow (i) - 1st - 49.46 (Hurdles 49.91)
If we just discount the Glasgow run then we get a differential of 2.44. If we include Glasgow (and I'll take off 1.5 secs as it was indoor and early season) we get a differential of (1.95 + 2.44) / 2 = 2.20. That gives us from his current time (47.84) a time of 45.40 or 45.64. Not that great. I see why you think he will be a great relay runner, but I disagree.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby sprintfan » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:39 pm

But you need to add in the fact Greene's Captain and its a home Olympics
- that surely must get his 'fighters' blood going.........

Yes Merito. Hemery/Pascoe and didnt even John Sherwood run some pretty strong relay splits?

Would be great to see both 4 x 400 teams really flying round - I'd be hoarse for days afterwards!!!
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby usedtoit33 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:39 pm

Contrast that with Jack Green running an easy 45.24 anchor in Rome. We need runners who can give us a sub 45 or very low 45.x leg.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby jeremy1 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:45 pm

If anybody really fances the chances of GB taking down the Americans in the 4x4 :lol: :lol: :lol: then OG light headedness is at hand.
We have to beat the Jamaicans, the Belgiums, and others to even get near the Americans; just a lttle reminder from Daegu.
USA, South Africa,Jamaica,Russia, Belgium,Kenya, GB( 3.01.16)( Strachan, Levine, Clarke and Rooney). so whats changed big time.??

Whilst it is not unreasonable that Green and even Dai would bring about a possible 1/ 1.5 sec improvement, no way will we get to the Americans .
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby jeremy1 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:53 pm

iain wrote:Dai's only relay splits on Po10 are:
09 WC Berlin - 3rd - 45.83 (Hurdles 48.27)
06 Glasgow (i) - 1st - 49.46 (Hurdles 49.91)
If we just discount the Glasgow run then we get a differential of 2.44. If we include Glasgow (and I'll take off 1.5 secs as it was indoor and early season) we get a differential of (1.95 + 2.44) / 2 = 2.20. That gives us from his current time (47.84) a time of 45.40 or 45.64. Not that great. I see why you think he will be a great relay runner, but I disagree.


Greene's flat speed suggests mid 45s for a leg in the Relay as his one slight weakness in the hudles, on his own admission, is lack of top end speed.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby MysteryBrick » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:59 pm

I don't think anyone really fancies us beating the USA, but we can all get a bit excited and dream.

It's a straight 3 into 2 between us, Jamaica and the Bahamas for the minor medals. Belgium have laid all their cards on the table and our full strength team, with better 3rd and 4th leg runners, is better than theirs. South Africa have shown nothing this year, and I don't see enough depth in Kenya and Russia (although very much looking forward to seeing Rudisha run a leg to see what he's capable of) to be worried.

And if (BIG if) our first 3 boys can all run at their best to give Rooney the baton less than 10m down on the USA, who knows.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby jjimbojames » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:02 pm

jeremy1 wrote:If anybody really fances the chances of GB taking down the Americans in the 4x4 :lol: :lol: :lol: then OG light headedness is at hand.
We have to beat the Jamaicans, the Belgiums, and others to even get near the Americans; just a lttle reminder from Daegu.
USA, South Africa,Jamaica,Russia, Belgium,Kenya, GB( 3.01.16)( Strachan, Levine, Clarke and Rooney). so whats changed big time.??

Whilst it is not unreasonable that Green and even Dai would bring about a possible 1/ 1.5 sec improvement, no way will we get to the Americans .

Agree about USA, but worth noting a full strength Belgium team only just beat GBR in the Euros. Add Rooney and Green and 2 seconds will be knocked off IMO. I expect 44.low for Rooney, 44.mid for Green and 45.low for Levine. 2nd leg in sub-45 and we're sub-2.59. I don't think that's too unreasonable
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby Tuckin » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:23 pm

jeremy1 wrote:USA, South Africa,Jamaica,Russia, Belgium,Kenya, GB( 3.01.16)( Strachan, Levine, Clarke and Rooney). so whats changed big time.??


Levine is consistently around 0.4sec faster than he was running last year; Rooney 0.3 faster. Williams is worth around 0.7sec on Strachan, and Green/Greene might well be worth 0.8 over Clarke.

That's 2.2sec, ie 3:59 dead - not enough to beat the Americans but likely enough for bronze and a possible silver.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby merito » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:25 pm

Kris Akabusi was a much different animal. After being an 800m man he was vey much part of the 400m scene through Mike Smith then Mike Whittingham. A good (very good) part of the 4x400 team, but Dai still has the exciting possibilities.
I understand the stats from previous years, but this year the stars are aligned for the right person, in the right place and at the right time. People do rise to what people expect every now and then- example: Kathy Cook in LA 1984.

Fingers crossed that I am correct :)
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:19 pm

MysteryBrick wrote:
And if (BIG if) our first 3 boys can all run at their best to give Rooney the baton less than 10m down on the USA, who knows.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Martyn Rooney is not making up 10m on Aries Merrit :?
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby djhdjh » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:21 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if he could. LeShawn on the other hand might be a problem.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby usedtoit33 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:46 pm

djhdjh wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if he could. LeShawn on the other hand might be a problem.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Although Aries could probably run a half-decent leg. ;)
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby SteveK26 » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:13 pm

The reason I suggest Dai MIGHT be able to run a low 44 split is I'm using a 3 second differential to his hurdles time.
So , lets say he is in 47.7 shape, that equates to 44.7. (not unreasonable considering he is the worlds best 400 hurdler).
Then take off 0.5 for a rolling start......et voila...44.2.
I'm not saying he would run this fast, I'm saying it may be possible.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby Ursus » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Sad to see Jeremy Wariner trailing in 5th. Whatever happened to this formerly great athlete?
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:32 pm

djhdjh wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if he could. LeShawn on the other hand might be a problem.


hahaha i've got Aries Merrit on my mind !! :wink:
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:47 pm

I was at CP on fri and sat just catching up on tv,

Perri is running 18 strides for the last 2 hurdles !! this isn't normal, top 4h do 16 or 17. She also stuttered into 6 and 7

There is a LOT more to come :D :D
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:54 pm

SteveK26 wrote:The reason I suggest Dai MIGHT be able to run a low 44 split is I'm using a 3 second differential to his hurdles time.
So , lets say he is in 47.7 shape, that equates to 44.7. (not unreasonable considering he is the worlds best 400 hurdler).
Then take off 0.5 for a rolling start......et voila...44.2.
I'm not saying he would run this fast, I'm saying it may be possible.


Who uses a 3 second differential !! Being the best hurdler doesn't effect your differential in a negative way, the better technician you are the smaller the differential

Go you think Kevin Young could have run 43.7 for the flat ?? Even Kerron Clement who has appalling technique doesn't have a 3 second differential and there is no way that Dai with flawless technique does.

I think you need to go back to the drawing board :?
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby sidelined » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:58 pm

mump boy wrote:I was at CP on fri and sat just catching up on tv,

Perri is running 18 strides for the last 2 hurdles !! this isn't normal, top 4h do 16 or 17. She also stuttered into 6 and 7

There is a LOT more to come :D :D


And if Jack Green could put a clean race together without clattering a hurdle or two there must be a lot more to come from him too.
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:02 pm

sidelined wrote:
mump boy wrote:I was at CP on fri and sat just catching up on tv,

Perri is running 18 strides for the last 2 hurdles !! this isn't normal, top 4h do 16 or 17. She also stuttered into 6 and 7

There is a LOT more to come :D :D


And if Jack Green could put a clean race together without clattering a hurdle or two there must be a lot more to come from him too.


Agreed but everyone clatters hurdles ever now and then

stride pattern is fundamental for the 400h and 18 strides cannot be the plan !!
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:03 pm

Vivien Cheruiyot is very beautiful
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:10 pm

Strange race from Eilish didn't even get involved with the other brit girls and then kicked really hard at the end, she could have beaten PB if she'd got more involved

What's going on with Charlie Purdue ? i think she maybe races too much
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:53 pm

I'm not that impressed with Mo's racing schedule this summer.

When get or Kenny are in great form they are running all the time at all distances and chasing fast times

Mo has run a lot of totally pointless races (Trials, EC, CP) in pedestrian times. It just seems rather lacking in ambition.

Gebremeskal ran 12.46 last week this was mo's chance to respond instead he runs a set up race against a field of nonentities in a pedestrian time.

I hope after the games he goes on a record breaking spree, everything from 1500 - half marathon please
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:23 pm

WTF is Inverdale talking to Dame Tanni about ??

Tosser
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby mump boy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:44 pm

Denise has got much better as a commentator, Colin not, obvs

Why does Inverdale try and make everything into a controversy he thinks he's Jeremy Paxman !!
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby boysen » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:50 pm

Perhaps he is angling for his job?I thought the BBC was going to us Inv. as the key man for track at the OLympics, is that going to happen?
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Re: London Diamond League 2012

Postby 3a » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:54 pm

SteveK26 wrote:The reason I suggest Dai MIGHT be able to run a low 44 split is I'm using a 3 second differential to his hurdles time.
So , lets say he is in 47.7 shape, that equates to 44.7. (not unreasonable considering he is the worlds best 400 hurdler).
Then take off 0.5 for a rolling start......et voila...44.2.
I'm not saying he would run this fast, I'm saying it may be possible.

I'll see you all the differentials in the world and raise you Matt Ellias, circa 2002. He was 49.5 400m hurdler then ran that beast of a leg for wales in the CWGs, low 44 then did it Again on the second leg at Europeans in Munich 2002, I believe he ran 44.2 there. Some people are just incredible relay runner. Their flat speed may not suggest it, but they put them into the scenario and they have it. That;s why it's important to test people. Jack Green seems to be one of those athletes IMHO, the way he ran his leg at Junior worlds, ate up the field, he has it. From what I've seen of Dai, he doesn't but...neither does Williams, Buck, Lennon-Ford or Tobin (since his injury).

Something off the wall like
Rooney-Green-Levine-Greene might actually be interesting.

If they do run of he mill Levine-Buck-Strachan-Rooney there won;t be any kind of medal or sub 3 clocking, that's for sure. Such a shame Bingham lost his form. :(

I agree with Flump on the women's 4x4 Child-TBO (run the first 100 fast Christine, it has a massive effect on where the next athlete is placed!! based on where TBO is at the break)then Lee, then Perri.

I KNOW Perri is an amazing anchor...but, errr......What happens if she goes second and Christine is given the baton in a medal position on anchor, she COULDN'T lose it, could she??? :oops:

I told myself I wouldn't discuss the women's 4x4 anymore. They always let me down. :oops:
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