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w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby hank » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:59 pm

They can't change the batton because they do not run the relay for their university or club. We have lost any form of relay culture in our system.They do not even compete in this country, or train here for that matter. What influence have we actually got then?

They change the batton like kids at the english schools, and the coaches that I have seen are a joke. They think it is complicated science, it is not. Rememeber the 'push pass' which was a new world beating technique that was being roled out? All Bull***t.

There should not be relay get togethers, the top 6 in the 100m at the trails should be in the squad. We should have a competition structure where our athletes are competing in relay regually at all different levels, so they learn their trade.
The basics are being missed.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby Guto Nyth Bran » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:06 pm

hank wrote:They can't change the batton because they do not run the relay for their university or club. We have lost any form of relay culture in our system.They do not even compete in this country, or train here for that matter. What influence have we actually got then?

They change the batton like kids at the english schools, and the coaches that I have seen are a joke. They think it is complicated science, it is not. Rememeber the 'push pass' which was a new world beating technique that was being roled out? All Bull***t.

There should not be relay get togethers, the top 6 in the 100m at the trails should be in the squad. We should have a competition structure where our athletes are competing in relay regually at all different levels, so they learn their trade.
The basics are being missed.


You do realise they were disqualified today for running on the line and not for a dodgy changeover?
The changes were pretty clean.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby Tuckin » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:22 am

ultragirl wrote:How difficult is it to pass a baton 3 times over 400m, badly trained athletes perform badly.


Spot the flaw here...
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby djlovesyou » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:26 am

It's interesting that these obviously brilliantly trained USA athletes seem to have issues with the baton more often than most.

It's a pressure thing, it's not a technical thing. Today's problem was different altogether, this championships they decided to go mental on people stepping on the inside line.

I don't think it was the track, I think it was being less lenient about that rule.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby SteveK26 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:55 am

It was probably a combination of both factors, DJ.
But the problem goes deeper than one technical blip in Helsinki. The qualifying time should have been achieved ages ago, not left to a last ditch attempt. Despite all the young talent lined up at the start of what promised to be a good season for GB womens 100, no one who makes things happen did anything to get the girls together for a race or two.

At the moment we have Jodie Williams, Kwakye, and Phillip all injured. But what say they hadn't been? The lack of forward thinking would have cost the girls a great chance of a medal at a home Olympics. That is scandalous.
I am neither a fan nor a detractor of CVC, but he should never have let this problem develop.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby usedtoit33 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:42 am

Reading CVC's comments on the BBC are interesting.

Yes, it's a shame no team is representing us, but I'm not entirely sure what people would do? Three of our top 4 are injured/not fully fit/taking part - Oyepitan, Williams, Kwakye, Onuora are our best sprinters. All of them are bona fide 11.1/11.2/sub 23 sprinters. Normally a team of that quality would be fine to make the final.

We didn't send our best team and unluckily they got DQ'd. This happens.

They fluffed and were complacent in Barcelona, got the hairdryer treatment from CVC and were subsequently dropped from funding. Obviously we haven't heard anything from the sprinters' side exept for Oyepitan's unwillingness to be involved for whatever reason.

The failure is systemic and lies at everyone's doors. The best coaching in the world can't deal with all injuries, can't force perfect baton changes or stop athletes from running on the line. Even the GDR dropped the baton on occasion. Whatever's causing injuries - training load, bad luck, poor coaching, poor technique, poor conditioning - is something athletes and their coaches have to address.

Where UKA falls down is for not organising relay races for the team this year in a domestic meeting - even if at the end of the trials. I do find it ironic that those that criticised UKA for concentrating funding on relays in order to gain 'cheap medals', and have criticised our female sprinters, are now blaming them for not investing in a relay team.

I've never met CVC, but I get the impression that if you want to impress him, you have to prove you're good enough and have the right attitude - in his eyes at least.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby djlovesyou » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:58 am

SteveK26 wrote:It was probably a combination of both factors, DJ.
But the problem goes deeper than one technical blip in Helsinki. The qualifying time should have been achieved ages ago, not left to a last ditch attempt. Despite all the young talent lined up at the start of what promised to be a good season for GB womens 100, no one who makes things happen did anything to get the girls together for a race or two.



I fully agree. I don't understand why they couldn't have sorted out a relay to go fast enough to get to the Olympics at some point during the season.

That's why I said that perhaps they didn't really want a team there.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby SteveK26 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:10 am

My point is that we COULD have had Phillip-Kwakye-Oyepitan-Williams (or a slight variation of that squad) in Helsinki, and they MIGHT have run 42-00 flat, but someone put their foot on the line and got them DQ'd. Had they all been fit and at their best. And we STILL wouldn't have had a squad in London! All because they fluffed a one and only chance of getting a qualifying time. That scenario should never have been allowed to happen, and it must be down to CVC .

Only someone who is psychic or possesses a crystal ball could have known that our best sprinters would be out for one reason or another, by this time of year.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby gp72 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:45 am

From what I see on the IAAF website the team below is the top performing British relay team this year. They are ranked outside the top 20 it would appear. With teams like Thailand ahead of them. As far as junior times go 44.48 is nothing to sneeze at.

44.48 Great Britain & N.I. Junior GBR 1 Bedford, GBR 10/06/2012
(Tagoe Annie, Johncock Rachel, Henry Desiree, Papps Sophie)



I still can't see why this is the best time this year. Further I can't see why a last minute meet can't be organized today or tomorrow in the UK just for our relays to secure the needed times. They can have a several combinations.Field an A B and C team the way the US field Red White and Blue teams at the Penn relays.

Frankly in a home games where one is not paying ridiculous money to send atheletes to far away places we should be fielding athletes in every event. That should be the goal.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby iain » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:59 am

gp72 wrote:I can't see why a last minute meet can't be organized today or tomorrow in the UK just for our relays to secure the needed times. They can have a several combinations.Field an A B and C team the way the US field Red White and Blue teams at the Penn relays.

I agree
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby Geoff » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:24 am

iain wrote:
gp72 wrote:I can't see why a last minute meet can't be organized today or tomorrow in the UK just for our relays to secure the needed times. They can have a several combinations.Field an A B and C team the way the US field Red White and Blue teams at the Penn relays.

I agree


I think you need a minimum of three international teams. I bet there's an adequate number of international athletes in London at the moment and they don't necessarily have to be that good. It's not going to happen though.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby iain » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:43 am

I was thinking maybe Belgium and Italy will want another go at qualifying so couldn't we race them here like sometimes happens at the ETC? I realise this won't happen but I don't see why not.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby gp72 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:56 am

Invite the Ottey led Slovenian team...they will show up---she really wants to go to another Olympics!
Add the GB juniors as well.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby ultragirl » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:09 am

Tuckin wrote:
ultragirl wrote:How difficult is it to pass a baton 3 times over 400m, badly trained athletes perform badly.


Spot the flaw here...
ha ha ha... :lol: that should read 100m of course, I used to be in a relay team from being a youngster upwards, never messed up once, and neither have any of my athletes in relay teams I have helped. Relay coach ? don't make me laugh!
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby ultragirl » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:13 am

Sounds like a good idea a last minute relay comp to get the required time.. OK now what do we need to suceed?

1. A down hill track on every leg at altitude.
2. a constant + 2 wind for each leg
3. A relay baton super glued to each runners hand.
4. A dodgy wind meter
5. Dodgy timing
6. a 360m track
7. Compliant statisticians

That shouldn't be to hard to get for our current "We can find ways" team, should it! :wink: :lol:
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby iain » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:36 am

After this failure, I think that Ashleigh Nelson should be selected on her B-standard, as Onuora and Oyepitan can do the 200m anyway. Nelson deserves this after managing to get back to form after so many injuries, only to be let down by UKA's organisation.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby fangio » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:43 am

ultragirl wrote:
Tuckin wrote:
ultragirl wrote:How difficult is it to pass a baton 3 times over 400m, badly trained athletes perform badly.


Spot the flaw here...
ha ha ha... :lol: that should read 100m of course, I used to be in a relay team from being a youngster upwards, never messed up once, and neither have any of my athletes in relay teams I have helped. Relay coach ? don't make me laugh!


Nope, it was that they did not get disqualified for a baton infringement, they were disqualified (as were lots of 400m runners) for running on the line. It has nothing to do with how well they were trained.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby SteveK26 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:51 am

Ultragirl
Do you really think our athletes are that bad? If so, who do you really support?
I suppose you are a purist who simply loves athletics and hates all ''flag-wavers''. Well you are sure to enjoy the Olympics since you'll cheer and marvel at ALL the winners, (unless they happen to be Brits).
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby sidelined » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:41 am

Steve, just ignore her.

What I think is bad about CVC's attitude is that he said he decided two years ago that the women's 4 x100 weren't going to be capable of doing anything at the Olympics. But at that point how could he know who was going to be on form this year? Margaret Adeoye, for example, has suddenly emerged this season. It seems to have become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don't suppose we're ever going to find out the ins and outs of it, though.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby Guto Nyth Bran » Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:49 am

ultragirl wrote:Sounds like a good idea a last minute relay comp to get the required time.. OK now what do we need to suceed?

1. A down hill track on every leg at altitude.
2. a constant + 2 wind for each leg
3. A relay baton super glued to each runners hand.
4. A dodgy wind meter
5. Dodgy timing
6. a 360m track
7. Compliant statisticians

That shouldn't be to hard to get for our current "We can find ways" team, should it! :wink: :lol:


No - What we need is for the team to run slightly slower than yesterday but not have somebody step on the line twice

I really don't get this - This is one time when UKA really deserves a damn good kicking and some of the other posters here round on the athletes instead.
If we'd entered a team at the Penn Relays or Rome or an event at Loughborough the team would probably have qualified top ten instead of missing out in 17th. It's clear that they simply weren't wanted as members of the team or the team would hve run races elsewhere as a failsafe.
They ran 43.51 yesterday -A full strength, well drilled team (which we should have planned for at the start of the year) should be capable of 42.80 which would have put them 5th at the last World Championships. Maybe that's optimistic and they wouldn't have reached the final in London but it's a disgrace that they we'll never know just through bad planning.

Rant over...
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby taffy » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:09 am

The girls only have themselves to blame.

I am glad CVC ripped into them in Barcelona 2010. They were awful. Their poor performance has nothing to do with lack of funding or lack of opportunity. The onlt time I have felt sorry for them was Beijing 2008 where they would hvae medalled.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby SteveK26 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:16 am

Sidelined
It sounds like you are as incredulous as me as to why CVC can write off an event so prematurely.
Especially when the results from junior and youth Champs suggested that GB women sprinters were extremely successful.
As I said earlier, perhaps he is psychic and knew long ago that our best female sprinters would all become unavailable for one reason or another by the time London rolled around.
How many medals has he predicted? Perhaps we should all get a sizeable bet on now.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby SteveK26 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:24 am

taffy wrote:The girls only have themselves to blame.

I am glad CVC ripped into them in Barcelona 2010. They were awful. Their poor performance has nothing to do with lack of funding or lack of opportunity. The onlt time I have felt sorry for them was Beijing 2008 where they would hvae medalled.


Taffy
Which girls only have themselves to blame? What fault exactly are you laying at the door of Williams , Kwakye, Phillip, Oyepitan or even Henry for that matter? Talk about tarring everyone with the same brush.......

In truth CVC has written off an event rather than an athlete or two. Things have been frustrating for the short relay girls of late , but do we have to accept that will always be the case?
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby taffy » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:35 am

the girls who have underperformed in almost every relay since edmonton 2001.They were ok in 2006

Why name girls who are injured? They wouldn't have been on the team anyway. Why just blame CVC? There is a relay coach.

Their failures are just limited to world champs, Olympics and Euros. How many dropped batons have ween seen at the Euro Cup.

Steve if you want to be a pedant, I can list the girls from each comp in each team. Alternatively, I can just say the girls.

Qualifying for the relay goes back to 2011 doesn't it? So we could include daegu, oh no hang on we can't. Jodie was picked to run there , chose not to, wisely IMO, but it weas a choice. So yes Il add Jodie to the list. We make our own chances.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby taffy » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:37 am

Had they performed in Barcelona 2010, there was an easy medal. a medal = funding. Oh but they dropped the baton in the heats. EVERYONE blamed Laura Turner, rightly. She wan't in Helsinki though.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby SteveK26 » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:46 am

Taffy
Come on, I'm naming the girls who are injured because CVC couldn't have KNOWN they would be injured or unavailable.
He thus should have facilitated an opportunity or two for the 'new breed' to put things right. Before all the injuries we had the makings of quite a useful squad, wouldn't you agree? And the girls I'm talking about cannot be blamed for what has gone on in the last few years.
So given that we needed to put up a time somewhere that would guarantee a place in London, why did he only allow for one shot in Helsinki?
Thats why its the fault of either CVC or UKA; who else would be pulling the strings?
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby taffy » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:56 am

I agree they should have run more and as many of them were in america in April/ may can't see why they didn't run out there. But they also had Loughborough. They should have done the time many times.

I guess i was spoilt in the late 70s and early 80s when we had a superb quartet who always seemed to deliver.

At this point in time I feel more sorry for Ugen in the LJ.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby iain » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:28 pm

I'm still not quite sure why they lost their funding. Yes they were awful in Barcelona, but we also won in Delhi that year (admittedly against poor opposition) and in the three previous years we had made world finals, and come close to medals. Taffy you cannot blame individual runners, injuries / mistakes can happen to anyone. The one I really feel for is Ashleigh, though also Montell and Hayley, as they have no individual standard. Also, I can't believe they were disqualified for standing on the line, its just so trivial :(
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby Tuckin » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:34 pm

iain wrote:Also, I can't believe they were disqualified for standing on the line, its just so trivial :(


You can't allow runners to run a shorter distance by cutting off the inside of their lanes, though. It was a pretty clear infringement.
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Re: w4x1 failure (AGAIN)

Postby taffy » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:55 pm

But they don't have the time individually from last year either.

You can blame them. Hayley has accepted blame herself for infringing the line.I am sorry but bif they mess a changeover up, or run inside the line who do we blame?

The qualifying rules have been set and they haven't made it. Do I think the deadline in all events shoould be later in July , yes, but they aren't.
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