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A British Athlete in Every Event?

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A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Mon May 21, 2012 10:09 am

A couple of years ago UKA stated they wanted an athlete in every event in the Olympics. Many scoffed at this aim but we do appear to be close to it albeit with the aid of a few new recruits. Some athletes have raised their game with the attraction of competing in a home Olympics and some have changed events in order to do so.

There still a few gaps where no one has even an IAAF 'B' standard though:
Men
Decathlon
20km Walk
Women
High Jump

Of course, we have a few athletes with a single 'B' standard or qualifying performances outside the UKA period. This could change but I would expect UKA to nominate anyone in reasonable form who has a qualifying mark providing no one else meets the criteria.

Reference has been made to the TOPS statement about us not having athletes in a wide range of events. Without checking I do believe they always said this was based on current performanes (last year, 2011) and was not a prediction of how athletes might improve. As to the reason for the obvious improvement that is open to debate and there are probably many factors. I suspect, though, it is mainly about wanting to be part of a home Olympics that has driven many athletes to train harder and focus more on qualifying. We need similar incentives every year!

Can we cover all events?

Besides this I think UKA also wanted fianlists in 50% of events (correct me if I am wrong). Is this achievable? Then we have to win 8 medals including one gold which should be easy shouldn't it?
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby BigGut » Mon May 21, 2012 11:26 am

Geoff,

The TOPS statement was that based on current form we will have nobody in the event etc. What it should have said was that based on current form we wouldn't have had anybody there if the Olympics were int hat year. It kept up this wording consistently and I believe it was deliberate. Saying we WILL have nobody there is very definately a prediction. If it wasn't a prediction then basically all it was was a review of the previous seasons performances, ie where did they finish in the rankings that year. It was most definately not painted as a review and was painted as something that indicated that we would not have people in many events and would not have finalists in alot of events where it now seems very likely.

Unfortunaltely these reports have been removed from the site, I wonder why?
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Mon May 21, 2012 3:49 pm

BigGut wrote:Geoff,

The TOPS statement was that based on current form we will have nobody in the event etc. What it should have said was that based on current form we wouldn't have had anybody there if the Olympics were int hat year. It kept up this wording consistently and I believe it was deliberate. Saying we WILL have nobody there is very definately a prediction. If it wasn't a prediction then basically all it was was a review of the previous seasons performances, ie where did they finish in the rankings that year. It was most definately not painted as a review and was painted as something that indicated that we would not have people in many events and would not have finalists in alot of events where it now seems very likely.

Unfortunaltely these reports have been removed from the site, I wonder why?


The TOPS statements clearly stated they were based on current performance and on that basis we would have x number in London. They were definitely correct in 2011! They were not predictions.

We have moved on from then and obviously things have improved. So can we meet the target of an athlete in every event or are we going to fall one or two short. What about most events having 3 athletes?
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby fangio » Mon May 21, 2012 4:32 pm

Geoff

I would agree, except tha they puthtis in their analysis notes

"Are 2010 performances relevant to 2012?

The answer is yes. "

The clear intention was to say that these are relevant firgures for 2012, they simply were not. They further tried to muddy the water by citing the 80% of medallists come from the top 5. This is true, but it is the top 5 that year, not the top 5 the year before, where the figure falls to well under 50% something which you woudl have thought a decnet statistician would have looked at when analysing the figures for the year before, rather than presnt a misleading impression. The figures were presented as an indicator that things were going badly, they have been shown to be irrelevant in many events, and a clear indication that the analysis TOPS presented was worthless when considering 2012, but being presented as relevant.

On the possibility that we will have close to every event covered, that is pretty special and definite progress. As for finalists, it depends on the definition of finallist, but I can see a possibility of finallists in over 50% of the events.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby BigGut » Mon May 21, 2012 4:59 pm

John Bicourt also wrote the following on inside the games.

"However, the statistical event by event survey of British athletes' world rankings from the 2010 season, published daily by www.topsinathletics.com in line with the day by day Olympic programme and together with the Deagu entry qualifications to indicate what might be achieved, suggests nothing of the sort and is even more significant in relation to this year's WorldChampionships."

It is clearly worded that it indicated what might be achieved not what had been achieved in the past season.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Mon May 21, 2012 7:17 pm

For crying out loud, you two, stop your most predicatable and repetitious posts. What is obvious to everyone is that two years ago or less we would not be able to seriously consider an athlete in every event but now we are close. It doesn't really matter who produced the figures, it is a fact. Will those weak events listed be filled? You may like to say why we have improved.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby LiamRiley » Mon May 21, 2012 7:26 pm

I sure hope that UKA select everyone who has achieved the qualifying standard. It would be sad to see an athlete with the only "B" standard in a minor event forced to watch on TV.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby BigGut » Mon May 21, 2012 7:47 pm

Geoff,

You said that the tops reports weren't predictions. They were and I have given some reasons why I say this. What is wrong with me making my point, OK you choose to ignore the language used but they did say WILL HAVE, not wouldve had. I also had a debate with the author at the time who insisted that they were a good indication of how we would fare in 2012. Just a factual correction as well, the tops figures were based on 2010 rankings not 2011, which is why they were even more irrelevant.

On the point of why the events are filled, I am unsure in some events how the author drew his conclusions. The ladies pole vault is not a surprising event to see progression in over 2 seasons. In 2010 we had an 18 year old vaulting 4.35 and a 16 year old over 4.05. With a home Olympics neither were likely to drop out and since neither had been long in the event big improvement was always likely.

The women's distance events on the track have seen the emergence of several younger athletes. So although we struggled to fill the team in the last few Champs we now have a flurry of qualifiers as our girls who dominated european cross country team events now come through, not all will make it but there were so many near the top that a couple he and there and we are in.

In other events I would suspect that 2011 was a year we would have seen lower performances. Several athletes that could aIm for euro finals wouldn't really have made an impact on the world level. So why not try to make changes and focus on London 2012. Martyn Rooney and Steve Lewis both did this, going back to the drawing board. Some people said that last year saw the demise of the men's 400m I the UK, but surprise surprise this year we see improvement from last year.

Men's jav was an event we would supposedly not have somebody in, but in reality Merv has been gradually improving and no doubt has had London in mind for a couple of seasons. Men's hammer has had a group come through and has had athletes receiving development and talent funding for a while. Men's discus is just freaky and I have no idea why so many made the step up. That said with 6 over 58.50 in 2010 and many of them young for discus throwers I guess it isn't that big an annomolly. Okoyes rise is meteoric, but he is a huge specimen of a man and being relatively new big improvements were always likely in the last couple of seasons.

OK the women's triple jump is covered because of somebody who is British by marriage and 11 years residence, But to be fair we have 3 others who did all time top 10 jumps last year behind her.

On the men's distance scene there is no doubt that the example set by farah and Thompson has been great. That plus successful US college stints mean that far from being a Brit free zone as predicted by Mr Bicourt we will have full compliments in both marathons, both 5000m and probably both 10000m and women's chase. The men's chase is an odd one, but I wish and vernon, Andrew lemoncello and Tom Lancashire would all give it a serious go.

There a re loads of factors at play, but frankly I think that many people just don't realise how incredibly good we are at athletics in this country. A couple of years ago I looked at the world top 50s. Only the US had more events where they were represented than us. OK we may not be a massive success in a small specialist area like Kenya or Jamaica, but as a nation across all events we are amongst the best in the world. When you start from a viewpoint of accepting we are very good at most events, then it isn't that much of a leap to see that by improving facilities, by funding talent and development instead of rewarding people who have reached a mediocre peak and with the incentive of a home Olympics we can get athletes from being top 50 to achieving qualifying standards. I many cases the step up hasn't been that big, it's just that it appears to have happened across the board.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Kermit » Mon May 21, 2012 8:09 pm

IMO All host nations should have an athlete in all events and all sports. Why? because it engages the public. It give little Johnny or Jenny sitting in front of the TV something to aspire to
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby boysen » Mon May 21, 2012 8:39 pm

Might it be that suggesting "we were not good enough" has inspired some to make the effort for 2012? The bigger question must be what will 2013 look like?
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby usedtoit33 » Tue May 22, 2012 10:40 am

I think we can take the hint from the Lee Merrien situation that the BOA would like as many athletes as possible in the team, and I have the feeling ol' Sebby boy would too. Purely speculation on my part. :D

Where the real crunch will come is for those on a single B come up for selection. Of course, the athletes know that two are required to show good form. The fact that we now have qualifiers in more events than in recent years shows they know what they have to do to get to the Olympics.

I don't see any reason why any athlete with one B shouldn't be selected in the end - there is room for discretion. But I hope all the athletes on one B get the second and win the trials so they minimise any trauma like this.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Tue May 22, 2012 11:36 am

Hopefully, we will get a qualifier in the decathlon this weekend with Daniel Awde being the most likely to achieve the 'B' standard of 7950. Our female high jumpers made some progress during the winter so perhaps a chance someone can clear 1.92 in the next few weeks.

Really please for Eden Francis and hope she makes certain of selection with another 'B'. Like used'33 said I can't believe she will be left out if she, and others with only one 'B', don't. Hopefully, our discus girls can find another metre or two for the 'A' standard.

Men's 20k walk?
Last edited by Geoff on Tue May 22, 2012 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby AllanW » Tue May 22, 2012 12:08 pm

Yes Geoff.

As mentioned on another thread, this weekend sees three events that might yield a qualifying score for our decathletes. I personally think the ‘A’ standard of 8200 points beyond any but the ‘B’ standard of 7950 is within reach for a few.

Ashley Bryant competes at Gotzis. Lineup here;

http://www.meeting-goetzis.at/meeting.htm

Many, including Daniel Awde, compete in Tenerife. Lineup here;

http://www.aronacombinedevents.com/noti ... etas-2012/

And the National Senior and U20 Championships are going on in Bedford. Lineups here;

http://england.athletics-uk.org/

Best of luck to all!
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Mon May 28, 2012 9:08 am

So now that Daniel Awde has the 'B' standard in the decathlon am I right in thinking the only events we haven't got anyone IAAF qualified are women's high jump and men's 20K walk? Hopefully, these will be filled but expect a few more unheralded athletes to come up with qualifying performances across many events. Perhaps we will have several 'A' qualifiers in events where achieving one 'B' seemed, at one stage, somewhat implausible.

The lure of London has certainly had a big effect on our athletes.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Mon May 28, 2012 11:21 am

With Luke Gunn and Stuart Stokes (still angry at not being selected last time?) running under 8.30 at the weekend we now habe three athletes with the London 'B' standard. Can anyone run the 'A' standard of 8.23? The trials could be interesting.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby usedtoit33 » Mon May 28, 2012 1:00 pm

Geoff wrote:With Luke Gunn and Stuart Stokes (still angry at not being selected last time?) running under 8.30 at the weekend we now habe three athletes with the London 'B' standard. Can anyone run the 'A' standard of 8.23? The trials could be interesting.

I think the trials are going to be a must-watch! After this weekend a lot of people have current standards with even more from last year. The competition is going to be pretty fierce with even the big stars having to be there.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:11 pm

I think there are now only two events where no Briton has yet achieved a 'B' standard. However, we are getting closer with Isobel Pooley high jumping 1.90, 2cm below the standard and Tom Bosworth just 19 sec off the mark in the 20km walk in Spain last weekend. Could we have every event filled?
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Geoff » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:57 am

Well it's obviously not going to happen now. Subject to appeals we will not have athletes in the following events:

Men
20k walk

Women
High Jump
Shot
Discus
4x100

We nearly got there but should have been closer. There are also a number of events where we have only one athlete and after that no one remotely close to qualifying. Plus a few injury concerns including Idowu.

The next target is an athlete in 50% of finals (top 8?).
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby ultragirl » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:07 pm

WE can always cheer on another country in events or finals we do not have an athlete in as many do in football, hmmm will it be France or Germany
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby BigGut » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:14 pm

It was an excellent target, sadly we have fallen short of it. But in doing so have probably produced more events reaching the 2012 standards than ever before so it did have some worth aiming for it.
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Re: A British Athlete in Every Event?

Postby Flumpy » Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:02 pm

But the only 2 events we don't have any qualified in is m20k walk and the wHJ.

We have qualifiers in wSP and wDiscus we're just choosing not to send them :x
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