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GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

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GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby Geoff » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:18 am

Donna Fraser and GB relay team-mates from Athens 2004 Olympics still waiting for justice

While Dwain Chambers looks forward to a legal ruling this month that will decide whether he can compete at the London Olympics, four British women who were cheated out of an Olympic medal eight years ago are still waiting for justice.

The GB quartet of Donna Fraser, Catherine Murphy, Christine Ohuruogu and Lee McConnell finished fourth in the 4×400 metres final at the 2004 Athens Olympics, where the gold went to the United States.

But, in January 2010, it was revealed that US athlete Crystal Cox, who ran in the heats of the relay in Athens, had been taking performance-enhancing drugs at the time.

Confronted with evidence found during the investigation into BALCO – the same Californian laboratory that supplied Chambers with drugs – Cox admitted to have taken steroids from 2001 to 2004, including the Athens Games.

She was banned from athletics for four years and, in addition, the US Anti-Doping Agency decreed that “all of Cox's competitive results will be disqualified, including forfeiture of all medals, points, and prizes since November 3, 2001”.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/shar ... r-justice/

Will our girls eventually be upgraded to bronze? Is this one for the lawyers which is why it's taking so long?
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby 3a » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:04 am

They really don't deserve a medal IMHO.

A) They ran an awful race, particularly Murphy.
B) Cox ran the heat and yes, she helped them qualify but the US could have used 10 other gals with equal effect.
C) The US team in the final, none of whom tested positive, WAY outclassed them
D) I think Donna is desperate for an olympic medal, but in her heart of hearts, it won't mean a lot to her even if she gets it.
E) Fraser should have gone out harder in Sydney and would have won an individual bronze
F) Frost should have ran in the Sydney 4x4 instead of Danvers and the girls would have medalled
G)See A again
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby jjimbojames » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:48 pm

I'm all for taking back the medals, but on this one, I agree with 3a - mainly because she was only in the heats

Prior to Istanbul, I think Athens was TBO's last good relay leg wasn't it?

Re Sydney 4x4 - I think Danvers was used on the wrong leg tbh - I'd say she was better than Frost, but needed to be on a middle leg, and then we wouldn't have been so far back
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby Guto Nyth Bran » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:31 pm

3a wrote:They really don't deserve a medal IMHO.

A) They ran an awful race, particularly Murphy.
B) Cox ran the heat and yes, she helped them qualify but the US could have used 10 other gals with equal effect.
C) The US team in the final, none of whom tested positive, WAY outclassed them
D) I think Donna is desperate for an olympic medal, but in her heart of hearts, it won't mean a lot to her even if she gets it.
E) Fraser should have gone out harder in Sydney and would have won an individual bronze
F) Frost should have ran in the Sydney 4x4 instead of Danvers and the girls would have medalled
G)See A again


I've got to answer this.
A) So what. Yes,they didn't run well but they still finished 4th - which is better than all but three countries in the world
Not relevant to the argument.
B&C) True - there were perhaps more than 10 others who could run in the heat and the US would still have qualified for the final but they didn't run and Cox did. She confessed she was a cheat so was disqualified therefore the US team were disqualified from the heats. One of the most basic rules in sport is that if you're disqualified in the heats you don't get to run in the final. The US could have lapped the field in the final but it makes no difference to the argument.
D) Again - So what - Not relevant to the argument.
E) Agree with you but again it's not relevant to the argument. By that argument - since Seb Coe ran a bad 800 final in Moscow should we take away his Olympic 1500 wins?
F&G) see D
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby Geoff » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:20 pm

For all sorts of reasons I hate retrospective medals but if someone cheats then medals have to be reallocated. It may be a bit harsh for all the Americans to lose their medals because Cox only ran in the heat but they were the rules at the time.

I suspect they have lawyers who will argue the rules are not fair and proportionate to the offence and established law takes precedence. This may be why it's taking so long. It's similar to WADA trying to ensure sanctions conform as far as possible to accepted legal judgements.
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby mump boy » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:59 pm

if your DQ'd your DQ'd

If US had done a 2 false starts should they have been allowed to run in the final, run out of their lane, failed to pass the baton ?

For all intense and purpose they only ran 3 legs in Athens and therefore didn't finish the race, it may not be fair to the other runners but the rules are very clear.
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby paul » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:02 pm

Some of us seem to be mixing up two different arguments here.

Q1: Do the americans deserve a medal?

Q2: Do we?

As several people have explained, that answer to Q1 has got to be NO.
(I would add to the given reasons that the "10 others could have done it" excuse is
questionable. US and Russian 400m running has had a number of drug issues over the years
-- more men than women on the US side, admittedly, but none-the-less.
One of the insidious things about cheating is that you see an apparent dominance by a country,
and it is hard to erase that from memory, even when several of those active in that
dominance turn out to be cheats. But what the cheating really means is that that dominance
was an illusion.)

Q2?
I quite like the idea of our ladies turning down a medal on the basis that they
don't feel like they ran well enough to deserve it.
Being tough on yourself is a good way to improve your best!
(Although it might be taken as an insult by anyone who finished behind you
-- so they'd be insulting almost the entire planet!)
But anyway it should be _their_
decision.
Not the cheats' decision.
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby 3a » Sun Apr 08, 2012 8:45 pm

paul wrote:But anyway it should be _their_
decision.
Not the cheats' decision.

That's a fair point, but I think DOnna Fraser at least, has made up her mind.
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Re: GB Women's Relay Team Still Waiting for Medal

Postby mump boy » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:22 pm

So now we're suggesting people turn down medals because we don't think they ran that well :?

They ran better than everyone else :roll:
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