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British Team for Istanbul

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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby sidelined » Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:12 pm

Good point, gruffalo. Also, running rounds at the Europeans isn't the best preparation for the third-best athlete going into the Olympics. Surely in really strong events like men's 400 hurdles or women's 1500 the selectors won't expect the 'third-best athlete' at the trials to run the Europeans, if they've already got the Olympic qualifying time? That athlete could be Nathan Woodward, Jack Green, Steph Twell, or Jemma Simpson, for example.
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby fangio » Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:19 pm

Can someone point me to the policy document that says the best placed at the Euro's goes, can't actually see this either from CVC or in any of the UKA documents. I can see that they have said that if people need the qualifying time they will be sent to the Europeans, but nothing about the best placed going to the worlds, what am I missing?
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby sidelined » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:26 pm

fangio wrote:Can someone point me to the policy document that says the best placed at the Euro's goes, can't actually see this either from CVC or in any of the UKA documents. I can see that they have said that if people need the qualifying time they will be sent to the Europeans, but nothing about the best placed going to the worlds, what am I missing?


Fangio I was responding to a quote CVC gave to inside the games:

Van Commenee said this year's European Championships would be used as "a preparation for London", adding that the leading British field event athletes would be selected, but that the policy for track runners would be different.

"All track athletes who qualify for the Games after finishing in the top two in the Olympic trials will not be selected for Helsinki.

"The Championships come less than a week after the trials, and so we will select track athletes who didn't make the top two or who are still seeking qualifying times.

"Mostly those events will feature our number 3, 4 and 5 athletes. I don't think there will be many athletes in Europe who will rate the European Championships over the Olympics."

Van Commenee added that the exception to this rule would be the sprint relay teams, and possibly also the 4x400m relay teams.


http://www.insidethegames.biz/sports/su ... n-commenee

Of course he may have been misquoted or not have made himself entirely clear. Of course selection for the Euros will be difficult because it comes before the Trials and in the more competitive events it will be hard to guess who will get the first two slots. UKA can nominate two reserves for the Euros, though, and the top two can then drop out.

I think the EAA are completely bonkers to hold these championships in Olympic year anyway, but if they're a flop it won't be good for the sport.
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby fangio » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:41 pm

Sidelined

I was on about the criticism Gruffalo made, whihc you said was a good point. There is absolutely nowhere int eh CVC quote that says the best performer at teh Euro's goes to the Olympics, it simply isn't there.

I cannot find any refernce to such a policy anywhere but Gruffalo's post "Well the best placed athlete at the Euros getting the third spot for OG is the daftest idea yet from UKA (and they've had a few)."

It looks to have been completely made up as far as I can tell.
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby sidelined » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:09 am

CVC said, "Mostly those events will feature our number 3, 4 and 5 athletes," which does suggest that a decision about who gets the third Olympic spot would take performances at the Euros into account - otherwise why send the 3rd ranked athlete at all? But perhaps CVC is thinking of a situation where only two athletes have the A standard before the Euros starts. I'm hoping there won't be many events where this is the case, and that the low standard in the men's 1500 metres last year, for example, was a blip caused by injury problems that won't be repeated.
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby fangio » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:00 am

Let's see, would it be because not selecting the 3rd place athlete (who has not qualifed automatically) is to give he athletes in 4th and 5th and indeed 6th an opportunity for a good quality race. The 3rd palce could turn it down if they want, but if someone shines at he euro's there is a chance they will get the 3rd spot. It is not a policy from UKA, sending 3rd 4th and 5th is not the same as saying whoever does best at the Euro's gets the 3rd Olympic spot, why would anyone pretend that it is?
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby gruffalo » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:00 pm

Fangio

I didn't know if the quote was true or not. Just highlighting if true it appears a bit daft. I would hope that whatever the event is that Team GB sends their best athletes.

I think first 2 and a "pick" is a good compromise. I don't think for instance the US first 3 past the post is the right way.

Even so there is a touch of hypocrism even in the first 2 system when generally policy quoted by UKA/CVC is always "sending athletes capable of" when CVC and the rest are criticised for not picking an athlete who has the OG/WC qualifying mark (when there is a free slot). First 2 past the post are not necessarily "capable of".
Scraping an OG/WC qualifying mark is not "capable of" but appears "scraping an OG qualifying mark" and coming in the first 2 of the championships suddenly makes you "capable of".
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby fangio » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:30 pm

Gruffalo, what quote? I can't find anywhere where anyone apart from you has said the best place at the Euros goes to the Olympics, no one. You simply seem to have made it up. Then instead of saying "If this is the policy" you go off on one about how wrong it is.
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby gruffalo » Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:08 pm

Fangio I suggest you read the posts of this thread again carefully before accusing people of making things up. I was just replying in response to a quote from Kermit on page 1

"Sidelined there are a number of permutations to consider so here is my 1+1=5 version.

The national championships will be the Olympic & European trials, only the first 2 in each event (excluding long distance) will be selected for the OG with third going to the highest place in the Euros getting the final spot at the OG."

I suggest you ask Kermit why "he simply seems to have made it up".
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby fangio » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:30 pm

Oh, I see, Kermit says what he might do in the situation and you attribute it to UKA. You do know Kermit its not UKA don't you?
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby Geoff » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:57 pm

From what I understand and having read CVC's comments in several newspapers the first two in each track event at the trials, assuming they meet the UKA criteria, will be selected for London and will not, normally, be allowed to compete in the European Championships. CVC has said the Euros will be for our 3rd, 4th and 5th ranked athletes and those seeking qualifying times.

I infer this to mean the Euros will form an important, last chance for athletes seeking a final qualifying place for London.They may not be sudden death but probably will be the decider for many athletes missing out on automatic selection.

Why argue over semantics. It's clear the Euros will be used to determine the final places in all but a few cases.
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby Patriot » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:01 pm

We really are looking at a devalued Euro Champs this year. It might be good for the sport itself by having them every two years, but most Euro champs this year will have little of the status enjoyed by previous edition winners......
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Re: British Team for Istanbul

Postby fangio » Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Simple Geoff, to say that it will form a final decider where things are close woudl be sensible, to say it will give those without the OG qualifier a chance (or several with rounds, chances) of getting the qualifier is sensible. To say it is the cast in stone decider is silly, so attributing it to UKA and slagging them off for something they simply have not said is ridiculous.

To me it's simple. if you are 3rd at the trial and have the qualifier you need to look at who is 4th, their track record, their likelihood of surpassing your PB or SB, whether their SB is better than yours and decide if you need the opportunity to beat them in a head to head again in the Euro's to enhance your chances ahead fo them. If you don't think you do, then don't go to the Euro's. Eg, if Dai Greene finishes 3rd at teh trials he won't need to go to the Euros to get his place ont he team unless an additional athlete than the 2 who beat him can get to world class. There is no best place a thte Euro's rule and it is important that there isn't.
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