Athletics Weekly | SPOTY 2017 - Athletics Weekly

SPOTY 2017

This topic contains 108 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of ursus Ursus 7 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 76 through 100 (of 109 total)
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  • #70254
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    SteveK26 wrote:
    And I don’t agree at all with your contention that David Weir has faced similar (in depth) competition as able bodied athletes. No way. You would be hard pressed to back that argument up.

    David Weir has probably faced a better level of competition than, say, Lewis Hamilton

    You do not seem to appreciate that there is a queue of wannabees a mile long from all over the world who would take that Mercedes drive from Hamilton if he didn’t prove year after year he is one of the fastest drivers of all-time. I doubt that there is anything to compare in athletics, maybe only the M100m. The rewards are so much greater, which makes the competition fiercer.

    • This reply was modified 9 months ago by Profile photo of laps laps.
    #70295
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    I don’t believe my points are contradictory:-
    – All contenders for SPOTY should be in one “pot”, irrespective of ability / disabity
    – IMHO the majority of para athletes are vastly over-hyped and therefore don’t deserve a SPOTY nomination, with some exceptions.

    So I’m suggesting that an exceptionaal para athlete should win the award, in the same way that an exceptional able bodied athlete or other sports-person should win it.

    And by the same token, unexceptional athletes / para athletes should not get an award.

    In my little world, athletes like Johnnie Peacock, Richard Whitehead etc are not exceptional in the same way that Farah, Hamilton, Murray etc are, even though they can probably lay claim to more medal hardware in some cases.

    So whilst they might be contenders for a Para SPOTY if one existed (which I don’t think it should), they shouldn’t just get in on the act of SPOTY simply because they are para athletes. They need to earn it on merit either by being so dominant and exceptional (despite the quality of their opposition) or by competing at an incredibly high level when measured against equally high performing competitors.

    I might be tempted to agree with you to a degree about David Weir etc, but he’s the best example I could come up with of someone who has a fairly broad field of opposition which has strong depth and who has consistently been there or there abouts. I’m not well enough informed to consider whether he is relatively better than someone else in a niche sport, but I don’t think there are many other potential para candidates who could fit my criteria either.

    #70299
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    That would be the way I see it also.

    #70497
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    A shortlist of 12 contenders has been announced for the BBC Sports Personality of the Year 2017 award.
    They will go forward to a public vote on the night of the live show in Liverpool on Sunday, 17 December. The nominees are:

    Elise Christie – Short Track Speed Skating; Sir Mo Farah – Athletics, Chris Froome – Cycling, Lewis Hamilton – F1, Anthony Joshua – Boxing, Harry Kane – Football, Johanna Konta – Tennis, Jonnie Peacock – Para-athletics, Adam Peaty – Swimming, Jonathan Rea – Motorcycling, Anya Shrubsole – Cricket, Bianca Walkden – Taekwondo

    #70504
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    So (with due respect to their talents) 2 female athletes in very niche sports, 1 female athlete who is a member of a team in a traditionally male sport (so relatively little public recognition, rightly or wrongly), 1 token para athlete whose popularity will be directly related to Strictly Come Dancing, a token footballer, a motorcyclist nearly no-one has heard of, a tennis player who has won relatively little but is top 10 in the world this year, plus the expected front runners in Farah, Hamilton, Froome, Joshua and Peaty.

    Zero to no chance of anyone other than those five winning, and (for reasons which I can’t comprehend) a most likely outcome which will be that someone who punches people for a living and who has competed just twice in the year.

    All a bit underwhelming.

    #70514
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    So (with due respect to their talents) 2 female athletes in very niche sports, 1 female athlete who is a member of a team in a traditionally male sport (so relatively little public recognition, rightly or wrongly), 1 token para athlete whose popularity will be directly related to Strictly Come Dancing, a token footballer, a motorcyclist nearly no-one has heard of, a tennis player who has won relatively little but is top 10 in the world this year, plus the expected front runners in Farah, Hamilton, Froome, Joshua and Peaty.

    Zero to no chance of anyone other than those five winning, and (for reasons which I can’t comprehend) a most likely outcome which will be that someone who punches people for a living and who has competed just twice in the year.

    All a bit underwhelming.

    Underwhelming… you are so polite.!!
    Hamilton’s abilities are directly related to the car and copious mechanics helping out, so WTF he s doing there is one of lives great puzzles.

    #70515
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    All a bit underwhelming.

    One word for it.

    Funniest bit was Gabby Logan, twice, failing miserably to produce a sound that remotely resembled “Vuelta”. Doesn’t strike me as the hardest word for a professional broadcaster.

    And not a hedgehog in sight.

    #70517
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Any participant in a team sport can have Philipo’s assertion about Hamilton leveled against them. Ultimately the sport of F1 is about a team creating a great / fast / reliable car, and then a driver with immense talent has to race it to the victory. Its the sum of the parts, and whilst it is easy to dismiss, it is no different to a star cricketer, rugby player, footballer, rower etc.

    Froome probably wouldn’t have won the Tour and Vuelta on my roadbike, Farah wouldn’t have won gold medals training in my shoes. Equipment counts, its just a little more focussed when it comes to F1, and a much bigger part of the equation. I’m not saying Hamilton deserves to win SPOTY, but its a bit naive to suggest he’s no sportsman with no unique talent and so undeserving of being included.

    Surely though as fans of athletics, we should be getting behind Sir Mo?

    #70524
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Froome probably wouldn’t have won the Tour and Vuelta on my roadbike,

    No, but he almost certainly would have on any other bike in the pro peloton. Hamilton wouldn’t have won the title in your Vauxhall Viva, but nor would he in 95% of cars on the grid either.

    #70526
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    SPOTY in a post Olympic year always feels like a bit of a come down and Murray has been much missed.

    I think Hamiltons achievements stack up fairly well, the car plays a significant part of course but Bottas is in the same car and has managed 6 fewer wins and 8 fewer poles

    There is some credence to the argument that maybe AJ isn’t the great athlete he was made out to be after the Klitschko fight considering he looked ordinary against a late replacement in his last fight. Klitschko has since retired so possibly was on his last legs.

    Kane’s in there on merit if you ask me, he could break Shearers record for goals in a calendar year, 6 shy with 8 games to go

    #70534
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Kane’s in there on merit if you ask me, he could break Shearers record for goals in a calendar year, 6 shy with 8 games to go

    Kane’s good, but if you’re looking at team players, I’d say Owen Farrell has a much stronger case. Serious achievement on the international stage – Eng and Lions – as well as driving his club to another Euro title. But we’ll have to wait for England’s triumph in Japan 2019 before he’ll get a look in.

    #70536
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Any participant in a team sport can have Philipo’s assertion about Hamilton leveled against them. Ultimately the sport of F1 is about a team creating a great / fast / reliable car, and then a driver with immense talent has to race it to the victory. Its the sum of the parts, and whilst it is easy to dismiss, it is no different to a star cricketer, rugby player, footballer, rower etc.

    When Hamilton joined Mercedes they had just come 5th in the Constructor’s Championship with Schumacher and Rosberg driving. They were miles behind Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren and Lotus. Within two years with Hamilton driving Mercedes were top. The drivers play a vital part in developing the car. The heat, the G forces, the reactions – those guys have to be great athletes to compete in F1, albeit a different sort of athlete.

    #70675
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Agree in part with that Laps. I’m not 100% convinced about Hamilton, the car developer, though I think the insiders in the sport report that he has developed substantially in that regard from where he was in his early days with McLaren. But equally I’m not 100% convinced that driver input into development these days is anywhere near what it was once upon a time in F1 as the science and engineering is far more important. Perhaps its flipped around a little now in that the skill required of a driver is to adapt themselves to what the car “needs” – cf comments about Bottas struggling with a car which was something of a prima-donna, whereas Hamilton was able to get it all working better.

    They do certainly have to be great athletes in terms of what they do, with intelligent sporting heads on their shoulders too. The beauty of sport is that no two disciplines are the same from someone who simply runs round in circles through to F1 – every sport in between requires different sets of skills and abilities.

    @Ursus – how did you know what I drive ;-)

    Fair point though, clearly F1 is an extreme in relation to equipment, I was just pointing out that equipment can be the difference between winning an losing in sports other than F1.

    #71348
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    An extraordinary fact on the BBC website.

    Ronnie O’Sullivan has NEVER been amongst the SPOTY nominees !!

    I had no idea. Higgins, Davis, Hendry all multiple nominees, but never the greatest player of all-time.

    Thats completely bonkers.

    I won’t watch the show now, its completely out of touch with reality.

    #71367
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Don’t think Froome will be getting his hands on this this year, whatever the merits of today’s disclosures!

    #71374
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Don’t think Froome will be getting his hands on this this year, whatever the merits of today’s disclosures!

    For some reason cycling seems to be riddled with asthmatics!

    #71375
    Profile photo of trevorp
    trevorp
    Participant

    For some reason cycling seems to be riddled with asthmatics!

    Inspiring, isn’t it, how some people are able to overcome adversity? Reminds me of the narcoleptic sprinters in the early 2000s!

    #71399
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Don’t think Froome will be getting his hands on this this year, whatever the merits of today’s disclosures!

    This article sums it up pretty well. Whatever the reasons behind it, I don’t think cheating to gain an advantage is one of them.

    About as unacceptable as Hamilton persistently speeding and Joshua’s occasional use of gratuitous violence. :-(

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Profile photo of ursus ursus.
    #71415
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    For anyone who hasn’t clicked on Ursus’s interesting link, this is a key passage:

    If ingested orally over a significant period of time, rather than through an inhaler as used by Froome, there is limited evidence of a small anabolic benefit, of the type that might help slightly in a brief sprint. But taken in those amounts would also bring palpitations. In terms of helping in a three-week Grand Tour it would be like taking a double espresso to a gun-fight. …

    In other words, he would be taking something that was not performance-enhancing, that was certain to be discovered and that he had repeatedly informed the authorities about in any case. It would be deception as idiocy, duplicity by the guileless.

    Hero or villain? Up to you..

    [Autocorrect wants to turn Ursus to Ursula!]

    #71507
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    So pleased Mo Farah won it.
    Fitting recognition for a great track career.

    Voting

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Profile photo of laps laps.
    #71508
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Didn’t see that coming. Well deserved, my thoughts on Mo are well known!

    The bookies got that badly wrong though didn’t they?!?

    #71509
    Profile photo of occasionalhope
    OccasionalHope
    Participant

    Surprised but pleased. And even more pleased at the lifetime achievement award for Jess (but I hope she’s not planning on a singing career, because that was very out of tune). And the men’s 4×1 coaching team got Coach, so athletics was very well represented this year.

    #71510
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Yep. Disproving the “athletics is dead in the public consciousness” theories.

    #71519
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Happily a lot of daft theories bit the dust.

    #71525
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Pleased Mo won, long,long overdue.

    Just an observation on the programme, (although I didn’t bother to watch it all), why wasn’t Mo actually there to receive the trophy?
    And a bit bizarre that the BBC lost the link at just the wrong time.

    And I can’t help thinking that despite the BBC telling us all how surprised he looked, he must have already known. Bearing in mind his stepsister(?) was sitting next to him ready to present him with the trophy…..

    Am I being picky………?

    • This reply was modified 8 months ago by Profile photo of stevek26 stevek26.
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