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SPOTY 2017

This topic contains 87 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of larkim larkim 1 week, 3 days ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 88 total)
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  • #68876
    Profile photo of irishman
    irishman
    Participant

    Froome is going for the World Time Trial this week. Historically the Triple Crown has been the pinnacle in terms of ‘great seasons’, and only achieved legendarily twice, Merckx and Roche.

    That triple crown, the classic one is Giro, Tour, World Road Race

    But I would suggest that the words ‘triple crown’ may start to buzz if he pulls off the Tour, Vuelta, World Time Trial (It’s a course with a final steep climb, so it arguably suits him more than usual – personally, I think Domoullin wins it, and we get set for an epic Demoullin-Froome-Quintana-Landa Tour de France next year)

    But if he wins the WTT, Froome’s 8 week alternative Triple Crown will be arguably similar to the Wimbledon, Olympics, ATP final triple by Murray last year, and he has a chance to win it.

    For me, our most dominant sportsperson, currently, is Peaty – he is several classes above, and could well win a long string of gold medals in his event (though I DID not one of the whiley old Brazilians worked out his technique at the worlds, copied it, and swam a superfast silver). The achievement of the year is without Question Froome’s Tour-Vuelta double – providing he doesn’t trip a WADA radar, in years to come that will be considered legendary. The favourite, in my book, is Anthony Joshua for the iconic Klitschko fight. Mo is the sentimental winner for me, not least because BBC will have rights to show both Worlds races and diamond league final, and that’s a very handy narrative. And of course, never count out the single minded blinkeredness of the petrol heads if Hamilton gets the F1 title.

    Given usual BBC checklist, that’s 5 straight able bodied men, 3 of whom are BAME. which makes the selection of the ‘also rans’ straightforward, I think. I’d guess Tom Daley (who might have an outside chance of a podium), Hannah Cockroft, At least one of the England women team sports captains, probably cricket, Joe Root and a Lion. If they slip beyond 10 Bianka Walkden, CJ Ujah, Ellie Downie and depending on the Worlds coming up Max Whitlock are possibles.

    #68877
    Profile photo of irishman
    irishman
    Participant

    Of course the irony is that Froome would almost certainly have won that 2012 tour if he hadn’t been forced to ride for Wiggins, a role which may have also cost him a Vuelta. Wiggins range of achievements – track to grand tour – is amazing, but Froome is a class apart on the roads.

    One day Froome will be superseded by someone with stronger legs. But between the ears the guy’s as hard as nails, with a real winner’s mentality. He doesn’t court the media, do plucky loser or cry in public, so will probably never win SPOTY.

    Wiggins bredth matches up to Froome’s depth – Wiggins ability to turn world class 4k indoor time trials into a Tour win, and 2 other GT podiums, and then back again is genuinely astonishing – only Coppi and Anquetil come close, even Merckx on the track was almost exclusively a six day man. Froome does modern GTs. That’s his thing. He wouldn’t necessarily even have thrived in the less predictable style of GT in the 80’s. But what he does – that summit finish-TT combo, he does with rare strength, and mental hardness last seen in the likes of Sean Kelly. A hard comparison, but one that Froome has not gotten a fair shake from.

    OR as it’s said in the old proverb, the fox knows many things, the hedgehog knows one thing, but knows it well.

    #69005
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    I think Ben Stokes might have just ruled himself out of contention!

    From what I just witnessed on the BBC News there is no way he will be on the Ashes tour, either.
    In fact if I had my way his loutish behaviour would rule him out of any England squads for the next couple of years.

    What a numb-nut.

    #69007
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Quite. Another addition to a lengthening rap sheet. Fabulous cricketer, but….

    And to prove our own sport isn’t immune from idiots, have a google of “Jason Lobo voyeur”. Heading for some quality time at one of HM’s hotels. Quite sad really.

    Sportsmen aren’t Gods, they have the same frailities and problems as the rest of us. Sometimes we forget that when discussing their performances.

    #69011
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    I think Ben Stokes might have just ruled himself out of contention!

    From what I just witnessed on the BBC News there is no way he will be on the Ashes tour, either.
    In fact if I had my way his loutish behaviour would rule him out of any England squads for the next couple of years.

    What a numb-nut.

    Obviously it looks bad, but I’d prefer to wait for the whole story before reaching a conclusion about the Ashes Tour.

    #69024
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Laps

    Can you imagine the fun the Aussies would have with Stokes if he goes?
    They would eat him alive. Fans and players alike.

    Whether he goes or not might not even be up to the selectors anyway.

    #69025
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    True Steve

    It would be a really good lesson.

    #69047
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    My guess is there’ll be a criminal conviction, but no custodial sentence. But it could take a while to come before the courts and its likely that the ECB would impose some sort of post conviction ban as well, possibly a couple of tests. Might be in everyone’s interests to just stand him down regardless.

    Suspect anything the authorities do may pale into insignificance compared to the reaction of the lady becoming Mrs Stokes in a couple of weeks.

    #69954
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Reckon Lewis Hamilton’s star might be on the wane with the plane VAT story (a matter on which I have no view personally, but I’m sure there’ll be plenty of opinion out there in tabloid land).

    So in the great public consciousness we’ve got:-
    – Lewis Hamilton – most poles, most WDC for a British driver, but with controversial lifestyle and potentially a tax doger
    – Mo Farah – most medals, brave silver medal, retiring from a glorious career, but with connections to a coaching setup that is flagged as “dodgy”
    – Chris Froome – Vuela & Tour double, most TdF for British cyclist, but did he try to nobble Wiggins (with his own issues!), are Sky a doping team, and is he British anyway

    I don’t know how the bookies see it but wouldn’t like to call it.

    (Edit – just checked the odds and apparently I missed out the favourite, probably due to the barbaric nature of boxing not being something I ever think about!
    One bookmaker has:-
    Anthony Joshua – 2/9
    Lewis H – 7/1
    Chris F – 10/1
    Jonathan Rea – 22/1 (who on earth is he?) (edit checked Superbike champ)
    Mo F – 25/1)

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Profile photo of larkim larkim. Reason: Adding bookies data
    #69960
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    Jonathan Rea… just proves that this BBC prog is a silly load of nonsense whereby groups of supporters are or can be encouraged to support any sportsman whether he has been heard of at all or is known by many people.

    #69961
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Jonathan Rea is available at 100/1 but he has an outside podium chance if nominated. Three successive World Championship wins in the most popular motor cycle racing formula in the UK say that he deserves consideration. Big local support from Northern Ireland to boost the vote.

    Best odds currently available –
    Joshua 4/11 *
    Hamilton 7/1 *
    Froome 16/1 *
    Farah 25/1 *
    Defoe 40/1 (highly unlikely to be nominated)
    Phil Taylor 66/1
    Kane 66/1
    Brownlee 80/1
    Daley 100/1 *
    Rea 100/1 *
    Peaty 150/1 *
    Anderson 150/1
    As there will be 10 nominees and some will be women and para-athletes (Christie, Shrubsole, Cockcroft, Peacock?) perhaps only the * contenders have a chance?

    It’s turning out to be a difficult year to win it.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by Profile photo of laps laps.
    #69962
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    You’d have thought those women / para issues would be factored into the bookies opinions, presumably that’s why Daley, Peaty, Rea have such long odds on that aggregated list.

    Still can’t understand the appeal of boxing, but given I avidly watch F1, athletics and cycling I supposed I am a little focussed on some areas and not on others. Maybe I’m a classic person to be splitting my vote, whereas if you’re a boxing fan you may well not find those sports as appealing.

    #69963
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    I’m surprised Daley’s odds aren’t shorter. I don’t think he’ll win but he has a big fan base and I wouldn’t be surprised if he finished in the top 3.

    Think Joshua has a wide appeal – he’s very popular with those who perhaps have an interest in Boxing but aren’t necessarily big fans. He transcends his sport I guess. Can’t see anyone else winning especially with Hamilton’s latest tax dodging.

    #69966
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    I like boxing, but I think Joshua is over-hyped and lucky to be competing in an extremely weak era. The likes of Lewis or Klitschko at his peak would have had him for breakfast, let alone some of the nasty Americans of years gone by. But you can only beat what’s in front of you.

    In 2017 he’s had 2 bouts – 11 rounds to get rid of a 40 year old ex-champion and then 10 to dispose of an average last minute replacement. He showed some resolve and character, but is far from the finished product in either skills or boxing fitness. He’s built like an Adonis and is hugely media friendly, which may be enough for SPOTY, but in terms of sporting excellence he doesn’t get near Froome.

    F1 isn’t a sport. :yahoo: But Hamilton’s certainly excelling at it and there are a lot of petrol heads around.

    #69971
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    LOL @ F1 not being a sport. I think there’s a sport in there, but it’s masked by the cars. There’s definitely a sport in the driving, and undoubtedly LH is very good at that. I suspect the “sport” aspect of it will become more and more important over the next few years as cars continue to converge on technical paradigms, and therefore the driver will be even more important.

    Interesting stuff on Joshua. I wonder how realistic the odds really are, given boxing is a far more bet on sport than athletics, cycling or F1 I’d have thought. If there’s loads of money coming in for him that would undoubtedly shorten his odds so the odds are artificially low in relation to his actual likelihood of winning.

    #69972
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Interesting stuff on Joshua. I wonder how realistic the odds really are, given boxing is a far more bet on sport than athletics, cycling or F1 I’d have thought. If there’s loads of money coming in for him that would undoubtedly shorten his odds so the odds are artificially low in relation to his actual likelihood of winning.

    The betting market should get a shake-up when the nominations are announced. I think Joshua is too short in the betting and the other main contenders are good value at present, particularly Hamilton and Froome. Joshua’s price, which hasn’t changed much since the end of April, will be based on the bookmakers early liabilities. As for the Hamilton tax thing, who pays more tax than they have to? Do politicians and the media really expect us to buy the idea that corporations and rich individuals should act as treasury benefactors out of shame when their accountants are telling them there’s a legal alternative?

    Mo is going to need a major push from the sport if he is going to get on the podium.

    #70002
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    I personally agree about the tax issue – its double standards of most of us to suggest that if we were advised how to manage tax more effectively we’d mostly follow that advice. But that being said, those double standards exist.

    Mo likely won’t win unless the BBC really get behind him based on the fact that they cover his sport on BBC1 in a way which they don’t for F1, boxing or cycling.

    #70003
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    On the tax thing I think there’s a clear cut off where behaviour, although legal, becomes unethical. Same could apply to current sexual harassment issues.

    In my opinion Hamilton has crossed that line, but I don’t think it will make any difference to the SPOTY vote.

    #70027
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    I disagree with that; I’m not so sure there is a line that can be relied upon when it comes to sexual harassment issues.

    It would not surprise me at all if Hamilton’s purchase of his jet was all handled by people working for him (I think the Guardian article on it says as much), and such is the mindset of advisors in this sort of area that tax minimisation will be one of the first things they go to demonstrate to their client that they know what they are doing and they are doing a good job.

    It is, of course, up to any wealthy individual to say to their advisors “I don’t want to use any creative schemes, however legitimate, to minimise my UK tax liabilities”. But who here hasn’t at least thought “I wonder how I could make sure my estate passes to my children with as little tax as possible” etc.

    Anyway, my point wasn’t really to debate the issue – just to acknowledge that (unless you view all publicity as good publicitity), the Lewis / jet story won’t have helped his bid to win SPOTY I don’t think.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Profile photo of larkim larkim.
    #70178
    Profile photo of fchd
    FCHD
    Participant

    As there will be 10 nominees and some will be women and para-athletes (Christie, Shrubsole, Cockcroft, Peacock?) perhaps only the * contenders have a chance?

    I would hope that Sophie Kamlish gets a look-in from the para-athletes.

    #70189
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to have a separate award for para-athletes?

    #70236
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    A separate para category would really be treating them as second class sportsmen and women. The very best of them (of which there are truly only very few) are as equally capable of taking SPOTY in their own right.

    I have a real problem with para sports being given the same profile and priority as non para sports when in most cases the actual sporting excellence simply isn’t there. But for characters like David Weir who have as strong a field of opponents as any able bodied athlete they should be considered side by side with them for awards such as this. IMHO.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by Profile photo of larkim larkim.
    #70251
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    You seem to be making contradictory points, Matt.

    And I don’t agree at all with your contention that David Weir has faced similar (in depth) competition as able bodied athletes. No way. You would be hard pressed to back that argument up.

    #70252
    Profile photo of fchd
    FCHD
    Participant

    And I don’t agree at all with your contention that David Weir has faced similar (in depth) competition as able bodied athletes. No way. You would be hard pressed to back that argument up.

    David Weir has probably faced a better level of competition than, say, Lewis Hamilton

    #70253
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Lewis Hamilton (and F!) is hardly a good comparison.
    Probably only half a dozen have any chance at all from the start of the season. I certainly don’t want him to win, but really SPOTY has become a bit of a joke anyway.

    Justin Rose would be a worthy winner if he wins the ‘Race to Dubai’ today. Three tournaments in a row and European Order of Merit champion if he makes it.
    A great champion and ambassador for his sport.

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