Athletics Weekly | Softly, softly....... - Athletics Weekly

Softly, softly…….

This topic contains 51 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of jjimbojames jjimbojames 3 years, 10 months ago.

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  • #8991
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    Sportmanager – I don’t think the Para Events were particularly hand picked, the home nation athletes won 3 out of the 6 events so that’s only half the events. We even let the pesky Aussies win a couple.

    Nowhere near as blatant as the organisers selecting Judo as 1 of the sports for the first time in 12 years with 13 of the 14 gold medals won by home countries including 6 by the Scots.

    #8992
    Profile photo of occasionalhope
    OccasionalHope
    Participant

    BTW does anyone know why cricket isn’t in the Commonwealth Games? Seeing as virtually nowhere that isn’t in the CW even plays the game.

    #8994
    Profile photo of mumpboy
    MumpBoy
    Participant

    I have practically no interest in disability sport and when i heard the winner of the 100m had ‘lack of movement below the elbow” or something and was competing against people who had trouble putting one foot in front of the other

    Sarah Storey was made a dame after 2012 but her disability is such that she frequently competed in the able bodied team and may well have competed in the Olympics for any other country.

    I’m fully supportive if paralympic sport but they do themselves a disservice when events that are clearly not at a sufficient level of participation or have classifications that make no sense are included in major events.

    #8996
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Well said , Mump.
    Its almost incomprehensible to decipher the classifications, and the fact that I saw so many ”runaway” winners in both swimming and athletics reinforces that opinion. Some are clearly less disabled than others, and we see victory margins of ridiculous proportions.
    I’m sure the organisers could have put on a mini para-C Games either before or after the main event had they chosen to do so.
    I really hope this integrated trend does not continue.

    #9004
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    I find it alarming that after several posters went out of their way in criticising the inclusion of para-events during the CWG within days of it ending there is yet another thread treading the same path. The vast majority of posts adding nothing new to the debate btw. The notion that para events were added to the CWG to boost the medal table is ludicrous, who pays any attention to the medal table anyway?

    Some of the comments on here read like something from a conspiracy theory, how would combining the biggest sporting event in the world with the second biggest sporting event in the world even work logistically?

    Of the 4950 athletes only 148 were para-athletes a whooping 3%. In 2006 there were 6 para events, in 2010 there were 6, this year there were 6. The Ipc have stated several times they do not want to see the Olympics and Paralympics combined. Clearly there is no agenda to ram para athletics down your throats.

    For several decades we have become accustomed in the uk to seeing para-athletes in public life and at the Paralympics. They are valued and respected members of society and treated as equals. This cannot be said for much of the world, the Paralympics are not even shown live on tv in the US. I heard a documentary with T G-T after the 04 games in which she said she was pointed at and poked in the streets just weeks after the Paralympics. Sport has the power to change people perceptions on these matters.

    Looking at the start lists for the CWG there were 0 athletes from the Caribbean nations. Para-sports are still developing around the world. In 2012 Jamaica sent 3 athletes to the games. The critics on here do not see the POTENTIAL in para athletics. Imagine a Paralympic final with athletes from Jamaica, TandT, Nigeria, SAf as well as the UK and the USA. It would be more competitive in most people eyes and hold the publics attention more. If you exclude para events from the CWG it is much less likely to happen

    #9005
    Profile photo of merito
    merito
    Participant

    treadwater1, I value and respect your opinion. However, I still have absolutely no interest in para events. Good luck to them and I wish them all the best, but they are just not what I want to pay to see no matter how few there are.

    #9008
    Profile photo of sportmanager
    sportmanager
    Participant

    treadwater – the tables matter to the paymasters- and the targets they set. Read some of the other comments and they will confirm this but for disability sport as it is no a full compliment – their medals are not in any target lists. Why would you say that the medals table aren’t important. Australia are complaining and concerned at the fact that they were not top for the first time for a long time as it implies they are falling behind as they are. It has also not escape the attention that the uk team did not score a much as lasts time at home games when overall medal counts were significantly up in all 4 teams but this hides the fact that certain sport did better – as always there are winners and losers.

    #9018
    Profile photo of magnolia
    magnolia
    Participant

    For several decades we have become accustomed in the uk to seeing para-athletes in public life and at the Paralympics. They are valued and respected members of society and treated as equals. This cannot be said for much of the world, the Paralympics are not even shown live on tv in the US. I heard a documentary with T G-T after the 04 games in which she said she was pointed at and poked in the streets just weeks after the Paralympics. Sport has the power to change people perceptions on these matters.

    The spirit of this quotation seems to be why I think a lot of people here are resistant to integration of para events. You seem to imply that the main reason or benefit is more of a social one – more visibility of para events will lead to more enlightened attitudes towards disabled people. Whilst entirely laudable, this conflicts with what the majority of people here are interested in, which is the sport and competition.

    #9019
    Profile photo of

    maybe a gauge of the interest could be in Birmingham on the 24th August….the DL event is now followed by the IPC event (which has been moved from the Monday to immediately after the DL event…maybe due to ticket sales??)….
    so not integrated into the main programme but tacked on the end….I confess I will be heading home after the last event of the main DL programme…

    #9054
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    I can understand some people not being particularly gripped by para events (though I’d far rather watch David Weir than a race walk, and I thought the para discus at the CG was quite exciting). But I can’t understand the degree of anger, outrage and hostility on this forum that has greeted the inclusion of a handful of para events in seven days of competition. Just live with it, people, be generous, is it so hard?

    And sportsmanager, I find your conspiracy theory ridiculous. Do you even know whether it was the local organising committee or the IPC who selected the para events for Glasgow? If it was all a nefarious plot, then why weren’t there events for Steph Reid and Jonny Peacock, who would have been far better bets for home country gold than GB athletes in several of the events that were actually chosen? UK Sport assesses targets for para sport and able-bodied sport separately, anyway.

    #9057
    Profile photo of iain
    Iain
    Participant

    Agree completely with the above.
    Personally I find the shot very boring, but I don’t constantly moan about it being imposed upon me, I just accept that it’s a very small part of the programme which I don’t particularly care about.

    Personally I always wonder who these PC, liberal, middle class intelligentsia are and where there huge influence comes from?
    The sorts of people I imagine you refer to are people like the nutcase author of this piece:
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/22/thomas-the-tank-engine-children-parents
    Who I’m fairly sure have no influence on anything

    #9063
    Profile photo of nuvola
    Nuvola
    Participant

    Sidelined- true for funding at a UK level. However, there are levels below that and I’m lead to believe that Scottish Athletics would have had funding issues from sport Scotland if they hadn’t achieved 3 medals. They made 3 regardless if you don’t include Clegg’s gold.

    I don’t agree with an integrated medals table but as someone pointed out above including parasports is far less cynical than chucking in judo!

    Judging by the closing ceremony are Australia going to include surfing and lip-syncing in the Gold Coast games? ;-)

    #9109
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    treadwater – the tables matter to the paymasters- and the targets they set. Read some of the other comments and they will confirm this but for disability sport as it is no a full compliment – their medals are not in any target lists. Why would you say that the medals table aren’t important. Australia are complaining and concerned at the fact that they were not top for the first time for a long time as it implies they are falling behind as they are. It has also not escape the attention that the uk team did not score a much as lasts time at home games when overall medal counts were significantly up in all 4 teams but this hides the fact that certain sport did better – as always there are winners and losers.

    I think you’ve missed my point there slightly SM, I was making a general aside to the medals table.

    I don’t accept that the medal table is a serious barometer of where British sport is at the moment. England always finish in the top 3, how can you tell if we’ve progressed / regressed?

    At the 1994 games we collected 47 gold between us, at the 96 Olympics we translated this to 1 gold. There are plenty more examples where medals won at a CWG didn’t translate to golds at an Olympics.

    As far as British Athletics is concerned all decisions for the next 12 month cycle will be based on performance at the European champs. It is very difficult for other sports such as swimming, gymnastics and cycling to gauge where we are leading up to the Olympic because all the top nations weren’t at the CWG. I was really impressed with how our swimmers performed. But setting the fastest time of the year when the Americans and Chinese don’t have a major champs this year is not all it’s made out to be.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/commonwealthgames/11012062/Commonwealth-Games-2014-Reality-bites-for-England-Scotland-and-Wales-after-gold-rush.html

    According to my maths we won 68 golds in 02 and 84 this year.

    #9114
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    The spirit of this quotation seems to be why I think a lot of people here are resistant to integration of para events. You seem to imply that the main reason or benefit is more of a social one – more visibility of para events will lead to more enlightened attitudes towards disabled people. Whilst entirely laudable, this conflicts with what the majority of people here are interested in, which is the sport and competition.

    So laudable you want to see less of it?

    I find the logic of some the posts on this thread questionable to say the least. It seems you don’t enjoy watching para-sports because they are less competitive in comparison. Yet you don’t want to encourage the sport, thereby making it more competitive.

    I share your concerns about competitiveness. There is nothing worse than a one sided contest, be it para-athletics or able bodied. As I mentioned in my previous post para-athletics is still very much developing, in this period it has to be encouraged, otherwise it won’t progress. IMO that peacock / Brown race at the Glasgow DL was as competitive as any other event that day.

    There has been much talk on other threads recently about the emergence of African nations and Caribbean nations and how it has transformed it for the better. Would the emergence of para athletes from these nations not do the same for the Paralympics? I’m not sure whether the critics can’t see the potential or don’t want to see the potential.

    #9115
    Profile photo of

    Because iain does not understand the existence of a PC brigade or liberals and their agedas or middle class intellectuals does NOt mean they do not exist. I know plenty from my earlier days in London.
    Take your head out of a certain place, iain. :yahoo:
    In any event the discussion is going nowhere.
    The screamingly obvious to some her about the pressures from opinion formers, quangos etc to include Disabled athletes , wherever possible, to build up the glorious Medal count cannot and will never appear to the naïve and blind.

    #9117
    Profile photo of iain
    Iain
    Participant

    I’m never sure how ‘liberal’, ‘middle class’ or ‘intellectual’ can be an insult!
    My point is that you always generalise about this ‘PC brigade’, but never actually say who ‘they’ are.

    #9118
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    Jeremy if the organisers conspired to include para sports to boost the medal table why did they not make more medals available. There were 388 medals available at the Paralympics in Athletics, Swimming, Cycling and Power-lifting

    The medal table isn’t worth the paper it’s written on – have a look at the link I posted. Of course you read the Telegraph so you will already be aware.

    Of the 261 golds available only 20 came from para-sports.

    #9252
    Profile photo of sportmanager
    sportmanager
    Participant

    Deleted as this was a response to a comment that no longer exists

    • This reply was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Profile photo of sportmanager sportmanager.
    #9261
    Profile photo of athletics-weekly
    Athletics Weekly
    Keymaster

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    #10751
    Profile photo of trackstyles
    trackstyles
    Participant

    Article in the telegraph featuring Hannah Cockroft and her complaints about the para events at the CWG. I suppose this is the flipside of having selected events in the programme. Too many for some and not enough for others!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/commonwealthgames/11042146/Hannah-Cockroft-Commonwealth-Games-organisers-ruined-the-legacy-of-London-2012.html

    #10754
    Profile photo of

    If disabled athletics is going to be included in various meets and championships why not Masters races. Just as admirable to see 70 year olds giving it their all as disabled people, in my book.
    The disabled rightly have their own Champs but the power and influence of the Disabled lobby is so much stronger than most.

    #10757
    Profile photo of

    Perhaps Jo Pavey will speak up for a couple of races for the over forties in our National Championships, after all the publicity in the media.!

    #10760
    Profile photo of sportmanager
    sportmanager
    Participant

    This supports my suggestion regarding hand picking events – she claims that they had ‘picked’ events and odd ones at that. ie. the long jump whose category actually doesn’t exist! As well as being too many or not enough, what were the criteria for selecting the few events and why were they telling athletes they weren’t allowed to compete?

    #10761
    Profile photo of jjimbojames
    jjimbojames
    Participant

    Maybe it’s just me, but she doesn’t come across too well in that interview – saying she wasn’t complaining for selfish reasons but then going on to say it was because she wanted more medals and to race on a faster track than Swansea kind of killed her argument for me (as did her complaint that there were only five people in her final in the upcoming Euros – pretty much sums up the point some have been making)

    My initial thought would be she couldn’t compete because it wasn’t her class/category – i.e. She could beat them because she’s less affected by her injury/illness than those who were competing

    #10774
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    Have to say that I do think Hannah comes across poorly in that interview – it did come across that she was primarily complaining simply because her category wasn’t included. Talk of Glasgow 2014 organisers ruining the legacy of London 2012 is ridiculous.

    Given there were only a limited number of events (6) on the programme they appeared to choose a mixture of events (sprints, middle distance, 1 jump & 1 throw) and also across classifications (wheelchair, visually impaired, lower limb disorders). Not sure what else they could have done really but there were always going to be people who missed out.

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