Athletics Weekly | New IAAF ratification rules will result in scrapping of most historical records - Athletics Weekly

New IAAF ratification rules will result in scrapping of most historical records

This topic contains 115 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of dpickup dpickup 2 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 116 total)
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  • #60784
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    This only makes sense if its impact is to get former fans to return to the sport, to get new fans interested and to encourage more kids to participate. What a lifelong fans like me thinks is of no consequence against those criteria.

    In the short term, the impact has been to once again put a news story our that revolves around doping, further associating athletics with doping in the eyes of casual fans. It’s also generated lots of comments about a lack of fairness with respect to Radcliffe et al. Adam Gemili was on the radio last week to publicise London 2017. He only got to mention it in the last minute of the interview because the opening qs focussed on this proposal.

    It feels like another own goal to me but time will tell.

    Personally, I’d change the weights of the throws, so new WRs could be established. I’d throw out the WRs where there is clear evidence they were not legitimate: e.g. Flo Jo’s clearly wind assisted 100 and all the GDR records where Stasi files provide proof (my understanding is that although athletes are not named, their drug protocols and subsequent performances are. Heidi Drechsler lost her law suit all those years ago on the basis of that evidence, so it must be legally robust. I’d also hold an amnesty for anyone who wanted to admit they cheated. Wang allegedly wrote a letter admitting to having been doped.

    #60787
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Personally, I’d change the weights of the throws, so new WRs could be established.

    Go ahead, Soviet, if I can have 500m tracks in exchange. :-(

    #60789
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    Joking aside, Ursus, if it weren’t for the impossibility of converting all the world’s running tracks, I would also be perfectly open to 500s, 250s etc!

    Do you think the throwing fraternity would object to new weights and new WRs for SP, DT, HT?S

    #60790
    Profile photo of

    Glad to see one of my fave sports journalists ,David Walsh, put a certain prima donna Marathon runner in her place on Sunday in the Times.

    #60797
    Profile photo of

    All records pre-FAT era became instantly obsolete the minute the first timer was installed. That was an even larger reset than this. There is no reason to keep any of these old records in the books anymore. Even many of the clean ones are tainted for different reasons.

    Radcliffe’s marathon was run behind male pacers. How is that pacing legal, but Kipchoge’s not?

    Mike Powell has been complaining too. But he is not even the true LJ world record holder. Ivan Pedroso is. Pedroso remains the victim of one of the worst sports robberies in history. At least Powell had 26 years on the throne, Pedroso had about 26 hours.

    Of course there are still many without taint at all. Edwards and El G (who has 5) top that list. Maybe they can institute some sort of re-application rule whereas the clean marks can plead their case to have their WR re-established based on a set of rigid criteria that will weed out the tainted marks.

    #60798
    Profile photo of trickstat
    trickstat
    Participant

    Radcliffe’s marathon was run behind male pacers. How is that pacing legal, but Kipchoge’s not?

    Mike Powell has been complaining too. But he is not even the true LJ world record holder. Ivan Pedroso is. Pedroso remains the victim of one of the worst sports robberies in history. At least Powell had 26 years on the throne, Pedroso had about 26 hours.

    ???
    An official was stood in front of the wind gauge in such a way that he probably disguised the true wind speed. Therefore, the Italian Federation decided not to submit it for ratification as a World Record. (2 long jump corruption scandals for one organisation within 10 years would not have looked good!).

    Radcliffe’s Marathon is the World Record for a mixed race, Keitany’s run in London this year is the women’s only record. Only a few city marathons have a separate elite women’s race. Kipchoge’s run is not eligible for the record because he had pacers who started and stopped at various parts of the ‘race’ and a lead vehicle set up to act as a windbreak.

    #60799
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Do you think the throwing fraternity would object to new weights and new WRs for SP, DT, HT?S

    Suspect they may not be too keen.

    As far as the spear is concerned there’d be pre 86, 86 to, say, 2020 then 2020 onwards, a bit of a mess.

    Moving the spear’s centre of gravity made a huge difference and changing the weights would probably do likewise and with it change the world order. Lightening the shot by a chunk might propel the lighter more dynamic Gill up the rankings. Conversely a heavier one would play right into the hands of the much more powerful Bukowiecki.

    #60801
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    I personally feel this is the perfect opportunity too modernise and simplify our sport, and to allow it to be more more inclusive, exciting and fast moving.

    The removal of starting blocks is an obvious elements that refreshes the sport, speeds up events, and reduces costs.

    When running a meeting, constantly changing the toppling Weight of hurdles slows and complicates the event. Standardising a weight and going back to a three knock down rule works for me…

    I have long thought that events like hammer would benefit from a redesign, so that they do not leave massive holes in the infield (pitch), and so the stop constantly getting stuck in the netting requiring a ladder to unhook.

    We should high jump into pit again…

    We should remove the board in long jump, and let them just jump from the end of the runway…

    Relays should do away with changeover boxes. Maybe even have mixed gender relays…

    This way, the dubious record holders moaning, will be record holders for evermore…so what’s the issue

    #60802
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Craig

    In respect of the heptathlon record I’m not sure that changing the javelin specification would have a huge bearing.
    I would imagine that the multi events scoring table would have been adjusted to take this into account.

    I remain unconvinced by any argument I’ve read to see how this proposal will benefit the credibility of our sport. The doubters will remain doubters with or without a reset of certain records. In fact ‘Mr. Average doubter’ might not even know which of the current world records are dubious.

    #60805
    Profile photo of craigj
    craigj
    Participant

    I guess not Steve, just surprised it wasn’t adjusted, at least. It’s a record that’s as unattainable as any, in my opinion, and still stands as it did in Seoul:

    7291, comprising: 12.69, 1.86 m, 15.80, 22.56, 7.27, 45.66, 2.08.51

    Looking at that the Javelin was not even her strong suit on the day, she was a 50m thrower at best, but I would have thought some revision would have taken place, given that they’re not throwing the same implement? If they hadn’t changed the women’s javelin in 1999 we’d still have Petra Felke’s 80m throw on the books. I don’t remember a big hoo-ha from any of the old brigade at the time they reset that record, obviously that was for different reasons though

    #60806
    Profile photo of

    There was nobody standing in front of the anemometer during Pedroso’s jump, you idiot. He was robbed

    #60807
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    There was nobody standing in front of the anemometer during Pedroso’s jump, you idiot. He was robbed

    Wasn’t there?
    According to reports there was an Italian coach standing very close to the wind gauge for all 6 of Pedroso’s jumps. He was interviewed (apparently).
    The question you should be asking, Darkside, is whether or not standing very close to a wind gauge would affect the reading. I’m sure somebody on this forum might know the answer to that one.

    #60821
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    There was nobody standing in front of the anemometer during Pedroso’s jump, you idiot. He was robbed

    Ignoring the unnecessarily offensive tone, I quote the New York Times:-
    Video tapes taken of the competition showed a man standing in front of the wind gauge during each of Pedroso’s six attempts, according to an Italian federation spokesman.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/04/sports/04iht-track.t_1.html

    But I’m sure you’re right, Darkside.

    #60822
    Profile photo of

    Where was Darkside at the time we wonder?

    #60823
    Profile photo of

    There was nobody standing in front of the anemometer during Pedroso’s jump, you idiot. He was robbed

    Ignoring the unnecessarily offensive <span class=”vm-hook-outer vm-hook-default”><span class=”vm-hook” style=”color: rgb(0, 153, 0); border-color: transparent transparent rgb(0, 153, 0);”>tone</span><span class=”vm-hook-icon” style=”display: inline-block;”></span></span>, I quote the New York Times:-
    Video tapes taken of the <span class=”vm-hook-outer vm-hook-default”><span class=”vm-hook” style=”color: rgb(0, 153, 0); border-color: transparent transparent rgb(0, 153, 0);”>competition</span><span class=”vm-hook-icon” style=”display: inline-block;”></span></span> showed a man standing in front of the wind gauge during each of Pedroso’s six attempts, according to an Italian federation spokesman.
    http://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/04/sports/04iht-track.t_1.html

    But I’m sure you’re right, Darkside.

    The video is on YouTube. Go find and you will see plain as day there was no one standing anywhere near the anemometer. Had the anemometer been blocked, as they claimed, it would not have any reading at all. As it was it had a legal reading of +1.2. Additionally the meet organizers first claimed they couldn’t read it due to the fog. After that preposterous lie failed they created Another one so they wouldn’t have to give Pedroso the Mercedes he posed with. That robbery is indefensible.

    #60824
    Profile photo of geoff
    geoff
    Participant

    Try to look for through the fog and see the windgauge!

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of geoff geoff.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of geoff geoff.
    #60832
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Geoff

    I looked through the fog, exactly the same you tube video you have posted above.
    There is no wind gauge visible.

    Perhaps Darkside would ‘post’ us his version.

    This is not to say that Pedroso was anything but a superb athlete. But an 8-96 performer in legal conditions? I’m not sure about that.

    #60839
    Profile photo of trickstat
    trickstat
    Participant

    The current IAAF rules state that the wind gauge must be placed 20m before the take-off board in which case it might be off-screen. That rule may have changed since 1995, but I suspect if it has the distance may have actually been more than 20m then.

    #60840
    Profile photo of trickstat
    trickstat
    Participant

    Where was Darkside at the time we wonder?

    Standing on the grassy knoll? :wacko:

    #60841
    Profile photo of

    Try to look for through the fog and see the windgauge!

    <iframe width=”500″ height=”375″ src=”https://www.youtube.com/embed/GIzD7TS7AEo?feature=oembed” frameborder=”0″ allowfullscreen=””></iframe>

    Good work. Now as you can see there is not one person anywhere near the anemometer. Case closed

    #60846
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    There’s a dark object just behind a guy in a white tracksuit, who is standing a couple of metres away from the table (with two people sat at it). That looks like a wind gauge to me – it’s the right height and width – and it’s placed where you’d expect to see it.

    Where do you see a wind gauge, Darkside?

    #60851
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    It’s really a stretch to imagine that the Italian authorities would want to avoid ratifying a Cuban world record to avoid a “communist” taking an american world record. But I suppose there is a reason we have the phrase “tin foil hat theories”…

    Apparently the offender was in a blue jacket, so possibly not the white official near the black object.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/the-five-strangest-sporting-days-in-95-5635276.html

    #60913
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    So Sanya Richards-Ross ‘backs’ the record book re-write.
    (well she would, wouldn’t she, since she stands to ‘inherit’ the 400 WR)

    And then she says that not all post 2005 ‘world bests’ would be clean.

    So where does that leave us? Perhaps in a situation where the public perception of our sport is no better, but at the same time we can no longer celebrate Jonathan Edwards as world record holder.

    (Lets not talk about asterix’s, or references to pre-2005 ‘bests’, once we wipe out the records they are history.)

    #65823
    Profile photo of luckyspikes
    LuckySpikes
    Participant

    Sven Arne Hansen has listened to Paula & Jonathan, has admitted that 2005 was decided in too much haste and will now propose 1991 as a cut-off date (when out-of-competition testing came in; I thought that was 1989 though?) – http://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1053531/exclusive-new-world-record-proposal-mean-radcliffe-and-edwards-set-to-keep-place-in-history

    This would have the effect of wiping the men’s Discus, Hammer & Shot world records (not trustworthy in the slightest) and the women’s WRs at 100 through to 800, High Jump, Long Jump, Discus, Shot & 4×4 relay. None of those would be controversial except arguably for the High Jump (though personally I have big doubts about that record).

    Looks like it would be a much better solution to me though I haven’t worked out what those new records would be. Many of the European records would also be affected. Congrats would be in order for Laura Muir and Iwan Thomas amongst others.

    #65829
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    Heptathlon WR would also go (should have gone when they changed the javelin spec of course)

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 116 total)

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