Athletics Weekly | Muller Anniversary Games - Athletics Weekly

Muller Anniversary Games

This topic contains 145 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of robo2 robo2 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 21 posts - 126 through 146 (of 146 total)
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  • #64072
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    As we all know Laura is a highly talented athlete who now has a lot more experience than this time last year.
    I don’t buy this lack of pace thing. Her 800 PB would be up there with the best of her rivals.

    What she can’t do is tow everyone around; that won’t work.

    What she could do is sit in and trust her own kick, or (in the 5000) try a Brendon Foster style mid-race burst that might open a gap for her.

    Whatever happens we all recognise the enormity of her task, but I think she can come away with a medal if she gets her tactics right.

    #64075
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    I can see a medal for Laura though not guaranteed of course. I suspect a gold will be beyond her at this point.

    #64077
    Profile photo of trickstat
    trickstat
    Participant

    I don’t buy this lack of pace thing. Her 800 PB would be up there with the best of her rivals

    I think her problem is not so much a lack of pace as such but that she does not seem to have much of a change of pace. I can foresee a situation where she is moving ever bit as quickly as an opponent over the last 50m but that opponent’s superior change of pace has opened up an unassailable gap before that.

    #64078
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    I think the possibilities of a medal are quite good. Better than 50:50 I’d have thought. Though predictions are bit of a waste of time because we don’t know what shape they will all be in and how the rounds will go.
    My basis for judging her would be more on last season than this. The Lausanne 800m followed by yesterday’s mile must have been more about preparing for the World Champs than the results themselves.
    Hopefully she has learned plenty about tactics and what suits her and what doesn’t suit the opposition.
    But we won’t know that till the day.

    #64087
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    Thinking about it, she may have a better chance at 5,000. There’s no sign of Ayana or Cherono; Cheruiyot has moved to the roads. That leaves Obiri, Dibaba and Teferi. Even if it was run fast, at sub-14:30, I’d fancy her chances to get a medal and if it is slow in the early stages, her chances will get even better. I actually doubt we’ll see Dibaba in the 5. And let’s not forget she destroyed Obiri in a 3,000 earlier this year, so there’s not that much between them.

    #64092
    Profile photo of tk852
    TK852
    Participant

    I think Sovietvest raises a good point, Laura Muir’s medal chances could be better in the 5000m. She certainly won’t push the pace and a sustained wind up of speed over the last mile could be really effective in dropping enough people to secure a medal.

    I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Muir racing in different situations to see whether she has this lack of turn of speed that some are claiming. Can we come up with some real racing examples where she has shown this? And don’t mention her mile in London, this is only her 2nd race back after a few weeks out and she has run a 1.58.69 800m and a 4 min flat 1500m (a mile PB it was too).

    #64097
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    As we all know Laura is a highly talented athlete who now has a lot more experience than this time last year.
    I don’t buy this lack of pace thing. Her 800 PB would be up there with the best of her rivals.

    What she can’t do is tow everyone around; that won’t work.

    What she could do is sit in and trust her own kick, or (in the 5000) try a Brendon Foster style mid-race burst that might open a gap for her.

    Whatever happens we all recognise the enormity of her task, but I think she can come away with a medal if she gets her tactics right.

    Steve, with respect you r missing the point ;its not the speed in shorter events; its the ability to change to full speed that counts in global champs.

    I am reminded of a British athlete called Wiggs ,many, many years ago that every body noted as a 1 and 3 miler how fast he could also run a very good half mile. He was faster than most over the half but he couldn’t change pace quickly enough to cut it at the top. That was why Paula who had goodish speed for 10 k runner with a reasonably fast 1500m I seem to recall could never win on the track against the East Africans who loved her sacrificing herself for them to go skipping by on the last lap. You know its true.!!

    #64098
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    I just wrote what I will now repeat as it has disappeared; I am inkling towards the idea that LM will have a better chance if she is not too knackered in the 5K to gain a medal. worth a small bet.
    By the way Klosterhalfen may surprise us all in either the 1500 or 5000m; won the German Champs with a total solo of 3.59 and bits.

    #64103
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    Great point – I wasn’t factoring in Klosterhafen. She could be Laura’s secret weapon in the 1500, if she takes it out at sub-4 pace.
    I agree with your comments on Muir’s lack of a change of pace, relative to Dibaba et al. The same was true of Cram though and in the end, he had the beating of Ovett and Coe because he’d make a long run for home.

    #64105
    Profile photo of mysterybrick
    MysteryBrick
    Participant

    I just wrote what I will now repeat as it has disappeared; I am inkling towards the idea that LM will have a better chance if she is not too knackered in the 5K to gain a medal. worth a small bet.
    By the way Klosterhalfen may surprise us all in either the 1500 or 5000m; won the German Champs with a total solo of 3.59 and bits.

    I don’t think you can push Klosterhalfen in the 1500m and negate Muir when Muir is 4 seconds faster over 1500 and they are similar runners… Give it 2 or 3 years at least, the German is only 20!

    #64113
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    Great point – I wasn’t factoring in Klosterhafen. She could be Laura’s secret weapon in the 1500, if she takes it out at sub-4 pace.
    I agree with your comments on Muir’s lack of a change of pace, relative to Dibaba et al. The same was true of Cram though and in the end, he had the beating of Ovett and Coe because he’d make a long run for home.

    But what about the glorious time in Zurich when Crammy beat the great Brazilian 800m runner, Cruz, with a fantastic last 150 metres; always remembered that race Crammy won in 1.42.88 ? Cram gad a rather big stride which he improved fairly quickly over the years.

    #64114
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    I think Sovietvest raises a good point, Laura Muir’s medal chances could be better in the 5000m. She certainly won’t push the pace and a sustained wind up of speed over the last mile could be really effective in dropping enough people to secure a medal.

    I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Muir racing in different situations to see whether she has this lack of turn of speed that some are claiming. Can we come up with some real racing examples where she has shown this? And don’t mention her mile in London, this is only her 2nd race back after a few weeks out and she has run a 1.58.69 800m and a 4 min flat 1500m (a mile PB it was too).

    Look at the cadence of her strides even when she ran so well in the Euros; its a hard pace always rather than a sudden furious break, as I see it.. if you look at LM’s great 3.55 its her strong consistent pace that screwed the opposition that day; not some Coe- like fifth gear.

    #64115
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    Great point – I wasn’t factoring in Klosterhafen. She could be Laura’s secret weapon in the 1500, if she takes it out at sub-4 pace.
    I agree with your comments on Muir’s lack of a change of pace, relative to Dibaba et al. The same was true of Cram though and in the end, he had the beating of Ovett and Coe because he’d make a long run for home.

    But what about the glorious time in Zurich when Crammy beat the great Brazilian 800m runner, Cruz, with a fantastic last 150 metres; always remembered that race Crammy won in 1.42.88 ? Cram gad a rather big stride which he improved fairly quickly over the years.

    That was even paced running, like all his good 800 races. He never could have lived with Ovett in a race like Düsseldorf 77 or Prague 78, when Ovett accelerated into the last bend. For that matter, Coe couldn’t accelerate like Ovett either and in a slow 800 would hit the front with 300 to go and employ what his Dad called a ‘triple kick’.

    #64116
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    I think Sovietvest raises a good point, Laura Muir’s medal chances could be better in the 5000m. She certainly won’t push the pace and a sustained wind up of speed over the last mile could be really effective in dropping enough people to secure a medal.

    I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Muir racing in different situations to see whether she has this lack of turn of speed that some are claiming. Can we come up with some real racing examples where she has shown this? And don’t mention her mile in London, this is only her 2nd race back after a few weeks out and she has run a 1.58.69 800m and a 4 min flat 1500m (a mile PB it was too).

    Look at the cadence of her strides even when she ran so well in the Euros; its a hard pace always rather than a sudden furious break, as I see it.. if you look at LM’s great 3.55 its her strong consistent pace that screwed the opposition that day; not some Coe- like fifth gear.

    Like Cram, Muir can kick of a very past pace – as she did against Obiri indoors.

    #64119
    Profile photo of trickstat
    trickstat
    Participant

    Steve, with respect you r missing the point ;its not the speed in shorter events; its the ability to change to full speed that counts in global champs.

    I am reminded of a British athlete called Wiggs ,many, many years ago that every body noted as a 1 and 3 miler how fast he could also run a very good half mile. He was faster than most over the half but he couldn’t change pace quickly enough to cut it at the top. That was why Paula who had goodish speed for 10 k runner with a reasonably fast 1500m I seem to recall could never win on the track against the East Africans who loved her sacrificing herself for them to go skipping by on the last lap. You know its true.!!

    For me, another example, from not quite as long ago, of an athlete who showed that pace and change of pace are not the same thing was Steve Crabb. His basic speed was such that I think he ran 48 something for 400m at 18 but he lacked something of a change of pace and failed to make the finals of the ’87 Worlds and ’88 Olympics when the times he had run suggested that he perhaps should have qualified.

    #64134
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    I agree with most of the posts above.

    I just see Laura as having a decent kick, (unlike Paula who relied on sustained pace and got picked off).

    The problem I see with Laura this year is the hard indoor season she put herself through. Very difficult to come back and do it all again outdoors.

    I’ll just hope for the best.

    #64141
    Profile photo of craigj
    craigj
    Participant

    Ayana is down to run the 3k in Monaco, that might have implications for the 5k in London if she’s back to form

    #68258
    Profile photo of johannesfactotum
    JohannesFactotum
    Participant

    I think the CJ will not end the season as British no1

    Are you sticking to that?

    #68270
    Profile photo of mysterybrick
    MysteryBrick
    Participant

    I think the CJ will not end the season as British no1

    Are you sticking to that?

    There’s an argument that says he didn’t win the British Champs and wasn’t the best Brit at the World Champs…

    I think it’s the wrong argument, but it could be made.

    #68283
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    CJ is the British Number 1 as has been the most consistent all season. Just a shame that his poorest race came in the London semi finals. He really should have made that final.

    #68285
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    I think the CJ will not end the season as British no1

    Are you sticking to that?

    There’s an argument that says he didn’t win the British Champs and wasn’t the best Brit at the World Champs…

    I think it’s the wrong argument, but it could be made.

    hes been the most consistent brit this year and the fastest, if you count a wind assist hes been sub ten for the last 4 seasons, 4 sub 10s in total to linfords 9, dasalous 2, chambers 5 (non dq’d ones ) and the rests 1

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