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London DL

This topic contains 253 replies, has 41 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of stevek26 SteveK26 2 months ago.

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  • #28664
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    Is it the duty of the governing body to promote and support the sport and all it offers to the public and country as a whole, or simply to produce as any medals as possible?

    I believe both can be achieved mutually with my preference towards the former, the governing body probably leans a little to the latter while Jeremy is clearly of the view that it is entirely the latter. It would be amusing if all governing bodies took this approach, we could look forward to fields of about 8 athletes in every event – in fact, it would be just like a Diamond League meeting. Would that be preferable?

    You quote my views totally incorrectly. I am desperate to see those people at the top of our sport support the grass roots across the board . The medals are absolutely NOT, I repeat not, what I care about. F*ck me ; my English is reasonable but you are writing as if I have never posted here. Its the ruddy Flag Waving that drives me insane and that’s all about Medals discussed here ad nauseam.Of course medals are fun but not serious for me .
    If I think an athlete has underperformed I say so, and always will ; if I think an athlete is over hyped I say so , despite the attacks about my alleged dissing certain athletes, who, in my view, were and are not fulfilling our hopes.
    Think of the BRit guys competing at high altitude venues in Switzerland who I warned against hyping up in various events
    and now BA won’t even accept Chaux de Fonds as a qualification standard venue.

    DONT TAR ME WITH THE MEDAL OBSESSION, thank you very much.!!!. In any event I prefer the points gained at a global Champs to tell the story of progress , not medals.

    Clear, I hope.

    #28666
    Profile photo of dpickup
    dpickup
    Participant

    SovietVest
    Birech has malaria!

    And you’d like to see Amos v Bolt (sic).

    Another interesting match to occur on 8aug over 400:
    Ashton Eaton 20.26, 45.64, 2.32.67 v Nick Symmonds 47.45, 1.14.47 (600), 1.42.95, 2.16.35

    #28677
    Profile photo of justrunfast
    justrunfast
    Participant

    Hudson-Smith no longer in the 400 line up and only 7 showing in the 100m hurdles…..

    #28681
    Profile photo of hayden
    Hayden
    Participant

    Hudson-Smith no longer in the 400 line up and only 7 showing in the 100m hurdles…..

    Sharika Nelvis is the one that’s disappeared. Hopefully Serita Solomon gets her lane.

    And hopefully Dunn gets MHS’s lane. Guess that means Rooney will be selected for Beijing now?

    #28682
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Jeremy1
    Your rant against Green was unnecessary and in bad taste.
    Sometimes you post stuff that is enigmatic,obtuse and full of double standards to suit whatever ‘argument’ you are putting forward.
    As far as I can see all Green did was to explain why he was not competing at this weekends meet, and update his injury situation. If he was trying to influence the selectors he would do it in confidence , wouldn’t he?
    I thought you wanted to see as many athletes selected as possible, and felt that the standards set were too high in a lot of events? But that same line doesn’t apply to the long hurdlers , apparently.

    It seems to me that you are falling in line with the selectors’ rationale.

    #28683
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    ……..I should perhaps re-evaluate my take on your ‘selection’ preferences, Jeremy.
    Having just read your comments on the Beijing thread,it seems you would only send a dozen or so individual athletes to the world champs.
    Just the elite performers, but only if they have been performing regularly throughout the entire season.
    And those that come home without a medal, it will be because they don’t work hard enough and settle just for a plane ticket?

    What utter garbage.

    Life is tough, my friend. I would rather watch our ‘under performing’ athletes any day than waste my money going to watch prima-dona , mostly foreign, vastly overpaid premiership footballers, for example.
    When I see a young female sprinter run 11-30, I don’t think ‘thats rubbish she should be running sub 11-00’. What goes through my mind are thoughts to the effect that this could be a stepping stone to something better. Not all will progress much. Some will get injured. But some, like Dasher and Jodie Williams will develop into athletes who represent GB with honour.

    #28684
    Profile photo of mrme
    MrMe
    Participant

    Steph Twell no longer in the 5000m. These start lists are chopping and changing all over the place. They were posted far too early.

    #28685
    Profile photo of jjimbojames
    jjimbojames
    Participant

    To be fair, I don’t think they were posted any earlier than other DL meets, it’s just that athletes are less risk-taking and more likely to drop out at this stage, with the WC getting closer and needing to get everything spot on.

    Note – horror of horrors, athletes from countries outside the UK have also pulled out (presumably with niggles) – let’s hope they don’t get selected, eh Jez…or is that just UK athletes?

    #28686
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    Are there any events other than the 800 (Amos v Bolt),

    I know who my money is on in that one! ;-)

    400 might be interesting though!

    Oops – it was a tough day at work!

    #28687
    Profile photo of

    Jeremy1
    Your rant against Green was unnecessary and in bad taste.
    Sometimes you post stuff that is enigmatic,obtuse and full of double standards to suit whatever ‘argument’ you are putting forward.
    As far as I can see all Green did was to explain why he was not competing at this weekends meet, and update his injury situation. If he was trying to influence the selectors he would do it in confidence , wouldn’t he?
    I thought you wanted to see as many athletes selected as possible, and felt that the standards set were too high in a lot of events? But that same line doesn’t apply to the long hurdlers , apparently.

    It seems to me that you are falling in line with the selectors’ rationale.

    What special right has Mr Green to do anything in confidence considering he has not done anything since early Spring. Let us, or you, get real please.
    The social media is a curse, imo, and his plea followed by lots of silly people pleading for him or being sorry for him is not appropriate to put it mildly.. Green is just a fragile athlete who is not fit. . Nothing more or less.
    The bad taste was by Mr Green as I see it. but I would like you to tell me why Jack Green should be selected.. He is not fit, has a tendency to fall and has done one A standard… just; and the selectors rules say clearly that in any event unfit athletes are to be avoided, but more importantly one A only gets selected with top 8 result considered likely, or some pathway to medals in the future stuff stuck in by the geniuses of BA..( See Clauses 1.7.a.i and ii)
    How many times over the years have British athletes been selected with their 100% fitness somewhat in question and when they failed miserably at trackside we were treated to a statement about how they were sadly not quite fit. I am sick of it, but clearly there are a lot of dewy eyed people around. The days of amateur chappies has been over for a long time.
    Your post amazes me in some respects and I have no desire to be a cheerleader for any British athlete. They or their coaches can do that I suppose.

    #28689
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    SovietVest
    Birech has malaria!

    In Adharanand Finn’s brilliant book, ‘Running with the Kenyans’ he wrote that they use the term ‘Malaria’ to describe any flu like symptoms and often recover in a couple of weeks. Either way, we face the jaw dropping possibility that a non-Kenyan could go into a World Champs as favourite!

    BTW, Finn’s latest book about Japan is equally good. Probably worth posting as a new topic, what I learned about the depth and quality of Japanese distance runners was genuinely eye opening. I didn’t realise that most of their best performances are run in Ekidens over non-standard distanceS, so when we look at their times for HM and Marathon, it is only telling half the story. Even allowing for that I was astonished to see that in a recent University HM Champs, 100 runners ran faster than 64:40.

    #28692
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    Are there any events other than the 800 (Amos v Bolt), 1500 (Kiprop v Souleiman) and (inevitably) the W100mH, where the main contenders for Beijing are facing each other? I suspect this is not the fault of the organisers – athletes tend to start avoiding their main competitors in the last few weeks before a major comp – but it’s still disappointing. I gather Ayana, Birech and Spencer have just withdrawn also. Their events are going to be a little short of interest now. Shame they can’t draft Jager – a sub-8 would have been on the cards.

    No Hartfield in the LJ but Visser, Dendy and Rutherford are ranked 2,3 and 5 in the world

    Likewise no current number 1 Bershawn Jackson in the 400h, Dutch, Tinsley and Stigler are placed 2,3 and 4. Thom Barr ranked a very useful 8th

    Gutted for Hudson-Smith, he looked superb against top quality opposition in Oslo. Hopefully there’s still time to overcome the problem and take part in the relay in Beijing. Good opportunity for Dunn to impress

    #28695
    Profile photo of sportmanager
    sportmanager
    Participant

    A little late to respond re points about Morse and Green. After further investigation of P10 and at his social media it seems clearly that this is unjust but also maybe more to the story than meets the eye – Morse threw his best ever throw in stadium conditions last time this event took place and he has commented that it was inspiring to throw in front of a partisan crowd. He is looking for a qualifying mark – something he has achieved before and claim he is in good shape – so why is he not being put in a position to achieve qualifying mark? Don’t GBA want more people at the games and on form he could even win a medal as standards are down somewhat. As they do not have to provide a lane and could add him to the list you have to wonder why they have not. Not on funding, not at Loughborough, out of favour, back with his out of favour coach. Seems like a ‘political’ decision or just a coincidence? The fact the hammer throwers (who are already selected) are not being show cased in front of a big home crowd as a local event not DL is again bad message sent to them. I seem to recall we would always have a male javelin event when Backley was about as well as womens when Goldie was throwing so why change now.

    Regarding Green. I again repeat I bare him no ill will but used him as an example of someone who may be selected for NOT competing as he is recovering from injury and hoping that he will be fit in time for the games. I notice that another 400m runner has pulled out (having raced sparingly this year) obviously injured and hoping to be picked on last years form having also missed the trials. This happens every year and this is usually when we get the ‘thanks to the medical team’ speech. If you are not fit you should not be there. Seeing lots of dead weight being eliminated in the early rounds as happened famously in the 2012 games where 12 medals could/should have been won – it can have a negative effect on the rest of the team and set a precedence – and open the flood gates for others to give the same excuse. very few of our athletes are that good that they can win medals or make finals when unfit. If I was a home meet I could see the argument for filling up places as traditionally that is what teams do but having lots of recovering athletes from various injuries.

    Finally, how do you think people like Morse feel when they have PB of 66m which on the day is good enough for medals – how many other athletes are in that position their PB being good enough to even make finals. It must be frustrating for him as it must be for supporters of athletics.

    #28697
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Jeremy
    Practice what you preach , and try reading other people’s posts in the same way you like yours not to be misinterpreted.
    I said nowhere that Green had any special right to get selected.
    What I did say was that he shouldn’t be berated for updating everyone (on facebook) as to the reasons he was missing the weekend. Of course he will add that he thinks his fitness problems are over, and express a hope that he might yet make the Champs. I hope he makes it , because he will not keep anyone else out, he is a very talented athlete, I’m glad to have him back competing again , and he can run a very useful relay leg.
    Any questions ? !!

    #28698
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    ……I don’t think anyone minds your ‘conservative’ , maybe slightly pessimistic, views on the current state of British athletics. I for one enjoy engaging in the debate with you.
    But your discourteous approach to those of us whom you refer to as flag-wavers, people maybe a bit more optimistic than you, becomes somewhat tiresome at times.

    #28699
    Profile photo of geoff
    geoff
    Participant

    Returning to why Morse isn’t throwing I do hope it’s not because of past issues. As has been mentioned, he’s thrown well in this event before and more than justifies an invitation. So either he’s been not been invited (which seems strange) or he’s declined through injury, personal issues or wants to throw at venues with better winds. He may yet receive an IAAF invitation and set UKA a dilemna!

    I also see that Steve Lewis is no longer down to compete in the vault.

    #28701
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    A little late to respond re points about Morse and Green. After further investigation of P10 and at his social media it seems clearly that this is unjust but also maybe more to the story than meets the eye – Morse threw his best ever throw in stadium conditions last time this event took place and he has commented that it was inspiring to throw in front of a partisan crowd. He is looking for a qualifying mark – something he has achieved before and claim he is in good shape – so why is he not being put in a position to achieve qualifying mark? Don’t GBA want more people at the games and on form he could even win a medal as standards are down somewhat. As they do not have to provide a lane and could add him to the list you have to wonder why they have not. Not on funding, not at Loughborough, out of favour, back with his out of favour coach. Seems like a ‘political’ decision or just a coincidence? The fact the hammer throwers (who are already selected) are not being show cased in front of a big home crowd as a local event not DL is again bad message sent to them. I seem to recall we would always have a male javelin event when Backley was about as well as womens when Goldie was throwing so why change now.

    Finally, how do you think people like Morse feel when they have PB of 66m which on the day is good enough for medals – how many other athletes are in that position their PB being good enough to even make finals. It must be frustrating for him as it must be for supporters of athletics.

    Could it be that this is a Diamond League event with a full entry list? That all 10 Discus competitors are in the top 18 this year, whereas Morse languishes in 31st place? That all 10 have thrown 65m this year whereas Morse has only thrown 63m? Could it be that Morse hasn’t thrown anything better for two years? Could it be that Morse has been poor when representing his country every time that has happened? Or could it be that his record shows no signs of wanting to seek good competition abroad?

    I don’t know. I just read people’s performance records and try to reach the conclusion which fits them.

    Don’t get me wrong I like to see the best home talent given a chance even if it appears to be outclassed. It just seems that there are a plethora of reasons why Morse isn’t in Friday’s DL field, apart from the one you have in mind.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Profile photo of laps laps.
    #28714
    Profile photo of sportmanager
    sportmanager
    Participant

    Laps – I am not the Morse fan club but I think my reasons and Geoff’s are solid. Why do you not want him in the event for all the reasons I have just given. I noticed a lot of people in the event who are not final material and why are you writing him off at 26. He is not languishing anywhere – he from what I have seen and read has not competed at good events as he has not been invited to any and he had minor injuries but he seems to be back with his initial coach who Geoff seems to think is a good move after he had many restrictions and conditions put on his choice of coach.

    Geoff maybe able to tell us why his current coach is not in favour as he mentioned it in a previous post but I have read on Morse’s social media that he has not been selected and has been put down as a reserve – as if they need another lane. Lalley has not been selected apparently for major events but has thrown distances that could make finals. What is it about the throw that GBA finds so unattractive or threatening that they need to keep them from the British public? I am sure without Morse or Lalley the crowd will be enthralled watching people they have never heard of or have no interest in. A GB thrower would make it a much better event to watch – but no others don’t see that and would rather athletes did not show up unfit and hopefully get selected for a nice trip to Bejing based on what they could do! Baffling logic – baffling viewpoints. How negative can people be? Morse etc is fit while the others mentioned are not.

    #28722
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Laps – I am not the Morse fan club but I think my reasons and Geoff’s are solid. Why do you not want him in the event for all the reasons I have just given. I noticed a lot of people in the event who are not final material and why are you writing him off at 26. He is not languishing anywhere – he from what I have seen and read has not competed at good events as he has not been invited to any and he had minor injuries but he seems to be back with his initial coach who Geoff seems to think is a good move after he had many restrictions and conditions put on his choice of coach.

    Geoff maybe able to tell us why his current coach is not in favour as he mentioned it in a previous post but I have read on Morse’s social media that he has not been selected and has been put down as a reserve – as if they need another lane. Lalley has not been selected apparently for major events but has thrown distances that could make finals. What is it about the throw that GBA finds so unattractive or threatening that they need to keep them from the British public? I am sure without Morse or Lalley the crowd will be enthralled watching people they have never heard of or have no interest in. A GB thrower would make it a much better event to watch – but no others don’t see that and would rather athletes did not show up unfit and hopefully get selected for a nice trip to Bejing based on what they could do! Baffling logic – baffling viewpoints. How negative can people be? Morse etc is fit while the others mentioned are not.

    Why do you say I do not want Morse in the event? Please read my post again. I would be more than happy to cheer him on Friday night and hope he did well. Do I think he will have earned his place is an entirely different question. The answer is no.
    I wrote what I did in response to your post which uses emotive words like ‘unjust’ and ‘more to the story than meets the eye’ and just talks up the positive aspects of his form whilst ignoring the negatives. It actually doesn’t do anyone any good to suggest that there are personal or political reasons behind selection decisions, particularly when there are a number of obvious and legitimate reasons why Morse could be left out.

    #28724
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    particularly when there are a number of obvious and legitimate reasons why Morse could be left out.

    There are, but equally most organisers seem to bend over backwards to get a home athlete or 2 into their fields. Would like to think ours would do the same. Brett may not have lived up to expectations, but he wouldn’t be disgraced in that company.

    #28726
    Profile photo of sportmanager
    sportmanager
    Participant

    Obviously I agree with Ursus – for a home GP they include people like our female shot putter who has got a PB this year and is great for her but who says they have to be in the top 20 in the world to compete and for your information the current DL results for several of the meets has seen few people surpass 63m where Morse has been languishing and in Oslo 63m won it with 62 2nd by Erik Cadee who he beat this weekend with Harting and Kanter throwing less as was the case in Doha and other DL meets.

    My point being that he is competitive and more importantly could be competitive. Why you continue to deny that he is worthy of a place on home ground in this atmosphere – with a home crowd in an event he threw well at last time (nearly 65m) and made a promising start to the season and from all accounts in good shape are compounded to appear to be unjust and why the field has the top 18 – why have he 18th best when you could have a local who is throwing as far as they are in DL’s and having a decent home athlete in the competition. If they put 29 year old 100 ranked triple jumper in 8 entrants – ie guaranteeing her money -surely there was space for Morse ! I won’t say any more as I am now repeating myself and you are just giving a host of excuses not to pick him when surely you should be looking to find reasons to select him. The biggest disgrace is that it is the last time to get a qualifying which he is close to and he has not been give the chance when others have been. You have to admit that Geoff and my arguments are legitimate and something seems suspicious. End of!

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Profile photo of sportmanager sportmanager.
    #28730
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    Any chance Mo will make the 3,000m a time trial? It would be great to see him really tested. 7:25 – 7:26 would be realistic. I think it would also be very sensible with Beijing in mind. The Kenyans and Ethiopians know they probably can’t outkick him, but if he can show he’s able to run 7 or 8 consecutive laps under 60 seconds they’ll also think twice about pushing the pace early.

    #28735
    Profile photo of geoff
    geoff
    Participant

    From the IAAF:
    Where applicable, the Meeting Director should allow at least one starting place in each
    event for national Athletes, one for the Diamond Race winner of the previous season
    and places for athletes leading the Diamond Race tables.

    Organisers must invite the top 3 in the current Diamond League standings and have a maximum of 10 athletes in field events. There must be some reluctance to invite him?

    #28741
    Profile photo of mattrh17
    Mattrh17
    Participant

    Solomon has been given a lane in the hurdles.

    Vernon Norwood has got the 400m space so either Dunn was overlooked or decided to stick with his plans to compete in Ireland.

    #28742
    Profile photo of hayden
    Hayden
    Participant

    Serita Solomon has now been added to the 100m Hurdles after Sharika Nelvis withrew! :yahoo:

    Danny Talbot has also been added to the 200. Steph Twell added for the 1500 (must be working on her speed endurance). Dai Greene added to the 400m Hurdles. Adelle Tracey added in the 800 although I presume she will be pacemaking.

    Looks like someone else replaced MHS as Jarryd Dunn has not been given a lane in the 400. Steve Lewis has also dropped out of the Pole Vault.

    And still no Brett Morse in the Discus!!!

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