Athletics Weekly | London 2017 Post Mortem - Athletics Weekly

London 2017 Post Mortem

This topic contains 131 replies, has 30 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of biggut Biggut 2 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 132 total)
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  • #67883
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    When looking at the placings table, don’t forget we’ve gained some points due to the Russian ban.
    That said, I think we can say that in the context of overall declining standards, we are declining at a slower rate than most countries.
    Much as we love to bemoan our weaknesses in events such as JT, USA aside, no country has such a spread of decent athletes across events.
    I also take heart from the fact that most of our 4th and 5th placers were athletes in their early twenties who can be expected to be performing better in 2 years (not that that guarantees a medal).
    Whatever happens, you can be sure in 30 years time, my girls and their generation will view the athletes of this era through the same rose tinted spectacles we view the athletes of the 80s and early 90s.

    #67888
    Profile photo of irishman
    irishman
    Participant

    I wasn’t aware Hassan’s coach was under investigation. The complete collapse in form from Dibaba is staggering, and sadly telling. The only similar reverse transformation I can think of is Ye Shewin, she of the crazy freestyle leg of 400 IM in London 2012 that nearly caused an international incident. She all but disappeared without trace afterwards.

    #67889
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Dina Asher-Smith achieved the nigh-on impossible in London.
    Her transformation from trials was quite remarkable.

    Give her an uninterrupted preparation and she must go sub 22. If I were her I would fear no-one.

    On the subject of Laura Muir I feel that without that indoor season she would have won a medal. Hopefully she will have no indoor ambitions from here onwards and will fulfil her dreams outdoors.

    #67890
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    Neil Black has said in an interview that he thinks everything is fine and he doesn’t need to change his approach. His contract runs till 2020. I wonder if the new chair will make any difference? Probably not. UKA invest so much in warm-weather training camps for sprinters and altitude camps for endurance athletes, but I think Miniciello is right when he says that they should be invest in coaching.

    There was so much melodrama and so many surprises that I thought it was a great champs. The highlights for me were the men’s marathon, Karsten Warholm and his astonishing celebration, DAS’s final, the women’s TJ…I could go on.

    Doha will be a disaster, and surely Coe and co must realise that. If the French investigation into Diack comes to trial soon and reveals corruption in the awarding of the 2019 champs, I wonder if the IAAF could shift them elsewhere?

    The BBC coverage was so irritating with the endless Bolt & Farah montages, the hysteria about Makwala, the over-hyping of marginal medal hopes and then the OTT criticism of them. Gabby Logan said that Nick Miller’s performance was ‘disappointing’, FFS.

    #67891
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    i dont know why people are writing off gemili , standards in the 100 and 200 are much lower than they were a couple of years ago and he is in with a shout as well

    #67892
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Gabby Logan knows very little about athletics.

    Why can’t we have someone like Merry orchestrating the pundits?

    Even I’m getting a bit tired of Mr. Jackson, but would like to see more of the irreverent Daley (provided someone could tell him to stop saying ‘absolutely’ all the time).

    Who will replace Brendan? Dave Moorcroft, maybe?

    #67893
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    i dont know why people are writing off gemili , standards in the 100 and 200 are much lower than they were a couple of years ago and he is in with a shout as well

    Certainly not me.
    He said he was not fit at trials and was made to run. He then said (before the show was underway) that he was in shape in London. And he looked great in the relay.

    His best days are ahead of him.

    #67895
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    I wasn’t aware Hassan’s coach was under investigation.

    Hassan is coached by Salazar now. So that would be the investigation.

    #67909
    Profile photo of paul
    paul
    Participant

    It was certainly a white-knuckle ride.

    My wife and I would like to take personal credit for Mo’s silver and the 4×1 gold. Our seats
    were immediately above the point where Mo’s charge from 4th to 2nd started to work (albeit 60 rows
    back); and where Coleman stopped closing NMB down. We were shouting so hard that I think I’ve now
    got a hernia and, after we got the gold, Mrs paul even agreed to a hug in public (hasn’t happened
    since 1998).

    ;-) B-)

    #67951
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    I’m abroad at the moment, and the north American press have a different perspective… They are suggesting that usa have capitalised as some countries are under a ‘doping microscope’.

    2015 medals
    Usa 18; Kenya 16; Jamaica 12; Ethiopia 8; Russia(unattached) 4.

    2017 medals
    Usa 30; Kenya 11; Russia(unattached) 6; Ethiopia 5; Jamaica 4.

    They also highlighted that Russia won 17 medals in Moscow in 2013. I don’t think that in this light, celebrating an increased number of finalists is a good indicator of progress… a par performance would be nearer 10 medals given the unforseen drop in standards. As a snapshot, we seem to have regressed with the rest…

    #67953
    Profile photo of paul
    paul
    Participant

    But we haven’t particularly regressed have we Leadleg? Just not progressed. Our numbers are always so small that there is no point breaking down lower than the total number of medals, and that’s in our normal range. Compare that with Jamaica 12 -> 4. That’s a regression.
    So maybe we are benefiting from the doping microscope effect, and `suffering’ from the globalisation of athletics effect, and these happen to cancel out.

    …So why did usa not suffer from the globalisation effect, and only benefit? Don’t know.

    #67954
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    Wonder whether the ‘doping microscope’ could find some interesting things to look at in the US…

    Paul, thanks for making me laugh in your earlier post, and for your very effective cheers.

    The more truly globalised the sport becomes, the more countries compete and win medals, the harder it is to make valid comparisons between current and previous performances. A small country like Jamaica – or Sweden in the Kluft era – may produce an exceptional cohort of athletes at a particular time only, while the US production line just rolls on.

    It strikes me as a bit arrogant of the US to say, hey, the only reason we don’t always dominate is because others are doping, when they’ve produced a ton of doped athletes and dodgy coaches like Trevor Graham themselves.

    #67955
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    I’m abroad at the moment, and the north American press have a different perspective… They are suggesting that usa have capitalised as some countries are under a ‘doping microscope’.

    2015 medals
    Usa 18; Kenya 16; Jamaica 12; Ethiopia 8; Russia(unattached) 4.

    2017 medals
    Usa 30; Kenya 11; Russia(unattached) 6; Ethiopia 5; Jamaica 4.

    They also highlighted that Russia won 17 medals in Moscow in 2013. I don’t think that in this light, celebrating an increased number of finalists is a good indicator of progress… a par performance would be nearer 10 medals given the unforseen drop in standards. As a snapshot, we seem to have regressed with the rest…

    The doping theory might contain some truth but the press are doing what press the world over do making a story out of dodgy or inconclusive statistics. Do you realise that the average USA medal count over the last 12 years is 25? Just as 2015 was below par with 18, 2016 (32) and 2017 (30) were a bit above par but neither are necessarily an indicator of any trend.

    Frankly your idea that a GB par performance would be nearer 10 medals has no foundation whatsoever. We haven’t won more than 7 medals in any global championships for the last 20+ years. As some countries regress there will be plenty of others coming to the fore eg South Africa – 0 medals in Moscow, 3 Beijing, 6 London. Much of it is cyclical. A couple years ago Canada was much touted and won 8 medals, this year no gold, no silver, no bronze and not even a 4th place.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of laps laps.
    #67963
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    Some good counter points made. I would question this notion that we have a more globalised sport. Seems like the same old nations doing things the same old way to me. If we were seeing China and India weighing in with their fair share of medals per capita I would agree, but it is commonwealth country’s picking up medals with old fashioned performances isn’t it?

    The mission of lottery funding isn’t to have only 1 individual champion in a home games. Our best funded, world leading programme should of produced by this stage, contenders across all disciplines. We seem miles off…

    #67964
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    I should think that the powers that be at UK Sport probably think that funding Athletics is largely money down the drain. So many individual events making the successful centralised model built by other sports impractical. Athletes and coaches doing their own thing. The NGB nowadays just following the path of least resistance. Assisting where it can. Investing in the athletes/events that seem to be the best bet. Otherwise having little control or influence on medal success but trying to maintain the pretence.

    It seems to me that is how the sport likes it, except it would rather more of the money was poured into the bottomless pit which is the grass roots. Bearing all this in mind continuing to meet UK Sport’s medal targets is definitely more accident than design.

    Contenders across all disciplines. You must be joking, this isn’t the USA, East Germany or the Soviet Union.

    #68003
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    Why is that not possible Laps?

    #68004
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    I had a look at the squad selected for 2012, I thought it might reveal some of the reasons why the 2017 squad underperformed. My reasoning being that some of the class of 2012 should have progressed to the point where they start contributing to the medals tally

    Adam Gemili – age: 18
    Dwain Chambers – age: 34
    James Dasaolu – age: 24

    Christian Malcolm – age: 33
    James Ellington – age: 26

    Martyn Rooney – age: 25
    Conrad Williams – age: 30
    Nigel Levine – age: 23

    Andrew Osagie – age: 24
    Michael Rimmer – age: 26

    Ross Murray – age: 22
    Andrew Baddeley – age: 30

    Nick McCormick – age: 30
    Mo Farah – age: 28

    Mo Farah – age: 28
    Chris Thompson – age: 31

    Stuart Stokes – age: 35

    Lawrence Clarke – age: 22
    Andrew Pozzi – age 19
    Andy Turner – age: 31

    Dai Greene – age: 26
    Jack Green – age: 20
    Rhys Williams – age: 28

    Robbie Grabarz – age: 24

    Steve Lewis – age: 26

    Greg Rutherford – age: 24
    Chris Tomlinson – age: 30

    Philips Idowu – age: 33

    Mervyn Luckwell age: 27

    Lawrence Okoye age: 20
    Brett Morse – age: 23
    Abdul Buhari – age: 30

    Carl Myerscough – age: 32

    Alex Smith – age:24

    Daniel Awde – age: 24

    Dominic King – age: 29

    Danny Talbot – age 21
    Simeon Williamson – age: 26
    Mark Lewis-Francis – age: 29

    Richard Buck – age: 25
    Luke Lennon-Ford – age: 23
    Rob Tobin – age: 28

    Scott Overall – age: 29
    Dave Webb – age: 30
    Lee Merrien – age: 34

    Women
    Abi Oyepitan – age: 32
    Anyika Onuora – age: 27

    Abi Oyepitan – age: 32
    Anyika Onuora – age: 27
    Margaret Adeoye – age: 27

    Christine Ohuruogu – age: 28
    Shana Cox – age 27
    Lee McConnell – age: 33

    Lynsey Sharp – age: 21

    Laura Weightman – age: 21
    Lisa Dobriskey – age:28
    Hannah England – age: 25

    Jo Pavey – age: 38
    Julia Bleasdale – age: 30
    Barbara Parker- age:29

    Jo Pavey – age: 38
    Julia Bleasdale – age: 30

    Barbara Parker- age:29
    Eilish McColgan- age: 21

    Johanna Jackson – age 27

    Tiffany Porter – age: 24
    Jessica Ennis – age: 26

    Perri Shakes-Drayton – age: 23
    Eilidh Child – age: 25

    Holly Bleasdale – age: 20
    Kate Dennison- age: 28

    Shara Proctor- age: 23

    Yamile Aldama – age: 39

    Sophie Hitchon – age: 20

    Goldie Sayers – age: 29

    Jessica Ennis – age: 26
    Katarina Johnson-Thompson – age: 19
    Louise Hazel – age: 26

    Marilyn Okoro – age: 27
    Nicola Sanders – age: 30
    Emily Diamond – age: 21

    Paula Radcliffe age: 38
    Mara Yamauchi age: 38
    Claire Hallissey (age: 29

    The average age was 27.2 and there were 18 athletes aged 23 or younger (21%)

    My first observation was that the team was made up of seasoned pros who’d been around for awhile, the younger names that stand out are Gemili, Pozzi, Clarke, Osagie, J Green, Grabarz, Okoye, Talbot, Sharp, Weightman, PSD, Bleasdale, Proctor, Hitchon, KJT. Who have won 3 medals at the top level between them, which isn’t a great return. Quite a few of those that have challenged for medals have found themselves in events that are at or close to an all time high. In women’s hammer SH is effectively fighting for 1 of 2 medals, women’s hep in Rio and Gotzis 2017 broke records for highest scores throughout the top 8. I suspect if Laura Muir had been born 6/7 years earlier she’d have quite a few medals to her name at this point.

    Fast forward to 2017 and the team is made up of many more younger athletes, the average age is 25.4, nearly 2 years younger and there are 30 athletes 23 or younger (34%). Of those 30, 10 made finals and 11 made semi’s. Comparing the squads there’s no doubt in my mind that this years roster is far stronger in many departments but as others have pointed out there are few names jumping off the page as future champions. Even if Muir improves Kipyegon is a year younger and will keep her company for the rest of her career. But there are a number of athletes who will be scrapping it out for minor medals.

    #68007
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Why is that not possible Laps?

    Anything that obeys the laws of nature is possible Leadleg, but England winning the next three World Cups would seem more likely.

    #68008
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    Your East Germany example interests me. I suppose I am of the opinion that lottery funding should of helped to establish a coaching and sport sciences set up that rivals that of the success of the former East Germany, minus the doping of course…

    We should have 85m male javelin throwers year in year out for example. The reason we don’t is more to do with our system than talent…

    #68017
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Your East Germany example interests me. I suppose I am of the opinion that lottery funding should of helped to establish a coaching and sport sciences set up that rivals that of the success of the former East Germany, minus the doping of course…

    We should have 85m male javelin throwers year in year out for example. The reason we don’t is more to do with our system than talent…

    Of course, East Germany conscripted the youth with athletic talent, assigned them to sporting programmes from an early age and had full control over them. We, on the other hand, live in a free and very individualistic society where the very idea of the East German system appals. It just so happens that youngsters with bags of sporting talent and many life choices don’t seem to see hurling heavy implements around muddy fields for countless hours and little reward as a good life choice. Strange that!

    #68037
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    On the subject of Laura Muir I feel that without that indoor season she would have won a medal. Hopefully she will have no indoor ambitions from here onwards and will fulfil her dreams outdoors.

    To your credit, Steve, you predicted this happening during the indoor season. The athlete who destroyed Obiri in Stuttgart was not the same athlete we saw outdoors.

    #68038
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    Laps, maybe if we just take the best practice from the system…

    I think a lot of people would like the option of a ‘grammar school’ for athletics… or help fund key athletes attend places like millfield.

    But if you are of the opinion that the standard is as good as it can be then I guess you just go with the dysfunctional status quo.

    #68043
    Profile photo of justrunfast
    justrunfast
    Participant

    I’m gonna be a negative nancy and say we just did ok simply because:

    We were saved by the relays

    A home advantage didn’t really help in terms of lifting performances

    In my opinion it hindered some performances of others (Finals at 10PM at 13 degrees won’t happen at world champs or olympics for a long time)

    We have had a home olympics and world champs yet some technical events have actually gone backwards.

    Using the points table to justify a decent games is strange, especially as it doesn’t take into account the trends of individual events in world terms.

    No one mentioned Elidih Doyle? Will she break 54?

    On the plus side our sprinters are getting closer very very slowly but surely.

    Relays can’t save us forever! We got them all right this time!

    #68053
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    But if you are of the opinion that the standard is as good as it can be then I guess you just go with the dysfunctional status quo.

    When it comes to Athletics the dysfunctional status quo is probably as good as it gets. From the outside the NGB seems weak and restricted in its role, and that’s exactly how the sport seems to like it.

    #68054
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Soviet

    I would much prefer to have been way off the mark and rejoiced in a Laura Muir medal!
    (And I’m pretty sure a lot of others were worried about the intensity of her indoor campaign including your good self).

    Anyway its done now.

    She set herself a very tough schedule but still came out with a lot of credit as far as I’m concerned.

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