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London 2017 Post Mortem

This topic contains 131 replies, has 30 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of biggut Biggut 3 months ago.

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  • #67801
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    So, what did we think?

    The Good

    Crowds, drama, thrills, spills, tight contests, controversy, credible performances, Grenadier guards and an over exuberant hedgehog.

    The Bad

    Weather, lack of flag poles, credible (not stellar) performances, walking.

    The “I’m bored with”

    Bolt & Farah. Brilliant athletes both, but I’ve heard enough about them to last a lifetime. Shouldn’t feel that way, always leave your audience wanting more. Usain, do not even think about coming back.

    The “Quite surprised I feel this way”

    Brendan Foster. He’s taken his share of flak over the years but he’s an interesting bloke and been a staple of the coverage for ever. Suspect we’ll only really appreciate him when he’s gone.

    Favourite Performance

    Pearson and Spotakova.

    The Brits

    A changing of the guard. The “guaranteed” medals of Mo, Jess and Greg are gone, with no-one really looking odds on to step up. In my eyes relays are great fun, but don’t really count. With a team that size there was always going to be a complete mix of under and over performances. Prescod is a star in waiting, Langford, Hawkins and Dasher were other real highlights, but there are others who, mid career, should be taking a long hard look in the mirror. On another day a few marginal bronzes might have fallen our way; would that have changed much? No medals in the field or multis; in short anything involving technique. Out of eight throws, we only had two finalists and, in a huge embarrassment in the land of Whitbread, Sanderson, Backley and Hill, not a single javelin thrower. Suggest getting the first plane to Warsaw or Berlin. Overall I think the team did acceptably, but if everything is medal reliant, there could be choppy waters ahead.

    Over to you….

    #67806
    Profile photo of mysterybrick
    MysteryBrick
    Participant

    Nailed lots of my feelings. I definitely suffered Bolt fatigue by the end. Hero was an absolute masterclass in mascotry. I’m summarising my feelings on British performances on a separate thread. I enjoyed Warholm’s win immensely, and the Women’s triple jump was a brilliant competition.

    #67808
    Profile photo of ktfrog
    KTFrog
    Participant

    Agreed with much of what has been posted above, though a few thoughts to add –

    – In a sport that is increasingly competitive, that has seen a record-breaking spread of nations claiming medals – I don’t “expect” medals unless they’re from tried and tested super-humans with nerves of steel (Mo and Jess in the last 10 years, basically). That’s not very realistic as a target for most athletes and will only lead to disappointment. Maybe the BBC shouldn’t have pushed this particular angle so much?

    – If an athlete finishes in the Top 8 then they have not “failed” – I’m a bit fed up of posters claiming that Laura Muir (for example) will struggle to ever make a podium when athletes like Jenny Simpson (for example) competed for several years before finding the rostrum and are now praised as “championship performers” because they have found a good combination of “consistency” and “luck” like all athletes not called Mo Farah must do…

    – I’m a bit fed up of relatively new athletes (this year, Shelayna Oskan-Clarke) being referred to by commentators as “championship performers” when this assessment is based on ONE GOOD SEASON. This is the second consecutive year that she has “failed” and as a a big supporter of hers, this one really stung. Who in the world doesn’t try and run a sub-1:58 in a semi-final containing BOTH Niyonsaba and Wambui!!!??? Shelyna the “championship performer” apparently.

    #67816
    Profile photo of fchd
    FCHD
    Participant

    I went to 3 sessions after not being able to go in 2012, and was pleasantly surprised by the stadium, the seats were comfortable and ample legroom for me, sight lines were excellent and the range of food available was perfectly acceptable, even if some of the prices were over the top even for this type of event (£9.20 for a pie anyone?). Getting in and the Hero Village were also better than expected, but getting out was far, far worse on the first night, and a real pain on the Friday morning when the stewards expected everyone to head for Stratford station even if you just wanted to explore the Olympic Park before staying for the evening session. Thanks to those here for the tip about Hackney Wick for getting home after that night, it was a lot easier and quicker.

    From what I saw both first hand and on TV, I really enjoyed the Championships from start to finish, even if the lack of GB medals for the first 8 days was a bit of a concern. The highlight for me was the women’s steeplechase, a race that had an awful lot and a superb finish from two Americans. Watching the first five events of the decathlon and seeing first hand the camaraderie between the competitors was impressive, and the speed the women’s 200m finalists raced past my spot in the stands was, just wow! Other highlights in terms of performance came from Barshim, Vetter (although pushed a lot harder than most of us expected), Thiam and in a losing cause Ta Lou (twice).

    I echo the thoughts of others that the Bolt/Farah show became exceedingly tiresome well before the end of the competition. Yes they are two great athletes and are going to be sadly missed but it was the same thing over and over and over and over… again.

    The reaction of the crowd towards UK athletes was of course immense, but also a number of other athletes received huge ovations, Sally Pearson, Christian Taylor, Dafne Schippers, Isaac Makwala and Caster Semenya amongst them. I’m sure I’ve seen somewhere that the latter received a mixed reaction but not from where I was sitting.

    Finally, I normally hate mascots with a passion, but Hero was brilliant.

    #67819
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Finally, I normally hate mascots with a passion, but Hero was brilliant.

    SPOTY without a doubt. I reckon there must have been a gymnast in there. Anyone seen Max Whitlock recently?

    #67820
    Profile photo of leadleg
    LeadLeg
    Participant

    This is an important thread, but I do think it should be had with two additional perspectives that are missing at the moment. The sport is judged over a 4 year Olympic cycle, so a lack of global medals in the first year of the cycle should not be panic stations. However, we have a funded system that is supposed to mean we rival the USA.

    I think the champs provides evidence that we are still relying heavily on unfunded club programmes, and commercial overseas programmes for our elite athletes.

    I loved the championships, because it feels like we are winning the battle against drugs. I wouldn’t give uka too much credit for this though, as anyone can host a successful champs in London. I was a bit annoyed that there were tickets available that were not advertised. Every session was not a sell out by the way, and in the round given the poor other events we have hosted this year, I feel that fastrack did a better job.

    #67830
    Profile photo of oldboy2
    oldboy2
    Participant

    I agree with someone on another post, Martyn Rooney’s PB is getting a bit dated; so why not give the 800m another try. His average time over the most recent 3 races is 45.8 secs and that is, according to my model, the ideal speed component to break the 800m world record. I cannot predict his endurance; but one way to find out would be to give the 800m another try. If he reads this forum and thinks it is worth a go I give below the race tactics according to my empirical model.

    400m Time 45.8
    forecast 800m time 100.87
    Race splits
    200 24.54
    400 49.28
    600 74.70
    800 100.87
    Lap Split 2.32

    If Martyn and his coach read this they would probably say why doesn’t this bloke mind his own business; but what do others think?

    #67831
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    IF the IAAF placings table comes closest to reflecting the strength of an Athletics nation at a global Championships then GB is in the best shape it has ever been. 105 pts exceeds any achieved at World Championships since they started in 1983 and all Olympics since 2000. We have also never been as high as 3rd on the Placings table before.

    I think that there were a number of the 4ths, 5ths and 6ths who can be winning medals in future years. In my opinion Laura Muir has everything required to win a gold at some point, not least the single mindedness to aim for it rather than a minor medal. Of course that’s as long as the intersex athletes don’t take over the 1500m. For me the relays are every bit as important as the individual events and will continue to be a good source of medals. They reflect our strength in depth in the shorter events and for UKA they have to be productive.

    As far as London 2017 was concerned I agree with Ursus’s Goods and Bads. An exceptionally well run and attended event, with a great atmosphere. All seven sessions I went to were full houses (bar some corporate and IAAF reserved areas). At least as good as the Olympics.

    Having watched the two High Jumps and Women’s Pole Vault close up they have to be my favourite events. There is something special about following a field event all the way through. A delight never available to a TV viewer. The Women’s Triple Jump also from the front of the second tier. Rojas and Ibarguen my favourite overseas athletes this time. They put on a show. So different but so well matched.

    #67837
    Profile photo of occasionalhope
    OccasionalHope
    Participant

    I think it was a good championships. While the weather put stellar times/distances out of the picture, the actual competitiveness of most events was great.

    And while the lack of solo British medals was a little disappointing, no one I actually expected (rather than hoped/outside chance/Kat) to get a medal actually failed; it was just that we don’t have any nailed on favourites other than Mo. Most people who made finals either matched or exceeded my realistic expectations. I was disappinted by some failures to make finals (eg Pozzi).

    You never know, all those fourth places put people in the front line for an upgrade if any of the medallists subsequently falls under scrutiny ;) Although that’s not an ideal situation either.

    #67853
    Profile photo of mrme
    MrMe
    Participant

    I feel uneasy about championing the relays too much. The mens 4x100m were superb but the other 3 medals feel more like bonuses.

    Relay medals are way more obtainable medals than say a women’s middle distance or long distance medal, which nowadays just feels impossible.

    #67856
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    Apparently 10 million watched the men’s 4×100 on Saturday and 700,000 attended beating the previous high of Berlin which is outstanding

    The number of nations winning golds is a strong indicator that the sport is in a healthy place. 27 took golds and in total 43 nations took either gold, silver or bronze. In the first edition in 1983 those numbers were 14 and 25.

    I can see the sport prospering on a global scale if this diversity is supported and encouraged further. Much has been made in the last 10 years of the Jamaican and Caribbean emergence in the sprints which has revitalised the sport. We’re beginning to see this transfer to Africa with some very good sprinters coming out of Botswana and South Africa. And I’ve also started to notice some decent throwers come out of the Caribbean. Long may it continue

    #67857
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    I feel uneasy about championing the relays too much. The mens 4x100m were superb but the other 3 medals feel more like bonuses.

    Relay medals are way more obtainable medals than say a women’s middle distance or long distance medal, which nowadays just feels impossible.

    Very true
    The relays came to the rescue of UKAthletics, no doubt about that. Very rare (I would think, without looking it up) for GB to medal in all four relays, and we would have still done so even without the Jamaican catastrophes.

    Nevertheless the ‘placings table’ reveals a situation that cannot be ignored.
    It was actually a pretty good performance by team GB.
    Is it not healthier to see more finalists but fewer medalists than the reverse?

    There is a lot to look forward to, and I hope Team GB will get more finalists AND more medalists next time around (globally).

    #67858
    Profile photo of mysterybrick
    MysteryBrick
    Participant

    Nevertheless the ‘placings table’ reveals a situation that cannot be ignored.
    It was actually a pretty good performance by team GB.
    Is it not healthier to see more finalists but fewer medalists than the reverse?

    There is a lot to look forward to, and I hope Team GB will get more finalists AND more medalists next time around (globally).

    I think that is the case – the picture in the field events especially is far from rosy but the depth of finalists in all manner of events is pretty impressive. Top position in men’s flat track (and road) events: 100m 7th, 200m 4th, 400m 9th, 800m 4th, 1500m 12th, 5000m 1st, 10000m 1st, Marathon 4th. Lot of countries would kill for that.

    Now to sort coaching and get the technical events up to scratch so we have finalists across the field in Doha.

    #67860
    Profile photo of mrme
    MrMe
    Participant

    A way to make the relays more exciting.

    Only award a gold medal. No silver, no Bronze.

    GB would have finished with 2 golds and a silver. That felt more like the result we deserved in terms of the medals table.

    #67861
    Profile photo of mysterybrick
    MysteryBrick
    Participant

    A way to make the relays more exciting.

    Only award a gold medal. No silver, no Bronze.

    GB would have finished with 2 golds and a silver. That felt more like the result we deserved in terms of the medals table.

    More exciting, or more pointless? I don’t think the Women’s 4×400 would have been better if 7/8 teams may as well not have been there…

    #67862
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Now to sort coaching and get the technical events up to scratch so we have finalists across the field in Doha.

    It’s going to take a lot longer than that, Mystery…..

    #67864
    Profile photo of mysterybrick
    MysteryBrick
    Participant

    Now to sort coaching and get the technical events up to scratch so we have finalists across the field in Doha.

    It’s going to take a lot longer than that, Mystery…..

    I think to get finalists in, say, 5/8 field events each (as opposed to 2/8 for men and 4/8 for women) should be the target and is realistic. I agree to have this regularly is a pipe dream for now.

    I see the following as possible finalists for Doha:

    Men
    High Jump: Robbie Grabarz, Tom Gale, Chris Kandu, Chris Baker
    Pole Vault: Adam Hague/Joel Leon Benitez, at a push
    Long Jump: Greg Rutherford, Dan Bramble, Jacob Fincham-Dukes
    Triple Jump: Ben Williams
    Shot Putt: …
    Discus Throw: Nick Percy
    Hammer Throw: Nick Miller, Taylor Campbell
    Javelin Throw: … (hesitant to mention any of the promising athletes under 21 until they throw 80m)

    Women
    High Jump: Morgan Lake, KJT
    Pole Vault: Holly Bradshaw, Molly Caudery
    Long Jump: Lorraine Ugen, Jazmin Sawyers
    Triple Jump: Naomi Ogbeta
    Shot Putt: Divine Oladipo
    Discus Throw: …
    Hammer Throw: Sophie Hitchon
    Javelin Throw: …

    Looking at this, the non-Hammer throws really are dire.

    #67865
    Profile photo of luckyspikes
    LuckySpikes
    Participant

    The number of nations winning golds is a strong indicator that the sport is in a healthy place. 27 took golds and in total 43 nations took either gold, silver or bronze. In the first edition in 1983 those numbers were 14 and 25.

    I can see the sport prospering on a global scale if this diversity is supported and encouraged further. Much has been made in the last 10 years of the Jamaican and Caribbean emergence in the sprints which has revitalised the sport. We’re beginning to see this transfer to Africa with some very good sprinters coming out of Botswana and South Africa. And I’ve also started to notice some decent throwers come out of the Caribbean. Long may it continue

    Also, there were at least 2 gold medalists from each continent. Apart from football, no other sport has such a global spread and it speaks to the democratic nature of athletics, where talent and determination can win out over high levels of investment.

    The IAAF should be trying to make more of this to help sell the sport.

    3rd on the placings table is GB’s best ever result and 105 points our best ever tally. Even without the relay results we would have been 4th, just one point behind Poland.

    #67866
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    A way to make the relays more exciting.
    Only award a gold medal. No silver, no Bronze.

    Sounds more like a way of killing them off. So many times USA has hurtled off ahead in a 4x400m and the winner is decided by halfway. What makes it interesting for the rest of us is what is happening behind. Cannot understand this begrudging attitude to the relays. Is it a grass roots thing? Certainly the crowd love them.

    #67867
    Profile photo of trevorp
    trevorp
    Participant

    As a championships I’d count this as a resounding success: surely few other host nations could attract such enthusiastic crowds, and there were plenty of exciting competitions and surprising results. ‘Mark snobs’ may be a bit sniffy about certain events, but they are never satisfied.

    From a British point of view, if you discount the authorities’ deluded inflated medal expectations, there were no major disappointments. None of our team ‘wuz robbed’.

    From a financial point of view, however, it’s outrageous to think that it took £28 million worth of funding to achieve this. Heads should roll, but they won’t.

    #67870
    Profile photo of pegs
    Pegs
    Participant

    So, what did we think?

    No medals in the field or multis; in short anything involving technique.

    If the sprints aren’t being coached as a highly technical event, you are doing it wrong. I say that as a multis coach.

    #67873
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Looking at this, the non-Hammer throws really are dire.

    And there’s absolutely nothing behind Sophie on the women’s side.

    Javelin Throw: … (hesitant to mention any of the promising athletes under 21 until they throw 80m)

    Seriously, make that at least 85m. 80m would be ranked 60th in the world this year. 13 throwers secured Q in London with 83+. That’s how far we’ve fallen behind.

    If the sprints aren’t being coached as a highly technical event, you are doing it wrong. I say that as a multis coach.

    Fair point, but you know what I meant!

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of ursus ursus.
    #67877
    Profile photo of foxyjarvis
    foxyjarvis
    Participant

    Probable individual medalists in Doha. Prescod, DAS and Gale is my shout.

    #67879
    Profile photo of rununlimited
    RunUnlimited
    Participant

    Probable individual medalists in Doha. Prescod, DAS and Gale is my shout.

    And NMB is just turning up for the shirt is he? And what about Pozzi? A couple hundredths away from making the final and as Balaz Baji proved, once you get to the final in the 110m hurdles, anything can happen.

    I’m glad you mentioned Tom Gale though, he is an immense talent in the high jump and if he can stay clear of injuries, he could be very special.

    Let’s not forget Edoburun either, or Maya Bruney in the women’s 200m, both have got so much potential.

    Also, let’s not count out Elish Mcholgan in the 5000m…. I think she’ll be going plenty below 15 minutes for the event soon enough and though gold and silver might be out of the question, she has what it takes to compete for a bronze medal in Doha.

    #67882
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    I have faith in Muir. I think she’s by far our best athlete post-Mo. She has never had the credit she deserves for that 3:55. Personally, I firmly believe no clean woman has ever run a faster W1500. Yes, the competition is tougher than for any other event but that might not be the case in 2 years:
    she won’t have Semenya to contend with by then, Simpson will be on the wane and Dibaba and Hassan have coaches under investigation and may need to change their set-ups.

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