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Latest Coe Proposals

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  • #69180
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2017/10/04/lord-coe-suggests-ipl-style-auctions-franchises-pop-up-tracks/amp/

    Where to start?? He’s seems to be moving towards a complete overhaul of the sport rather than just changing things here and there which could potentially throw the baby out with the bathwater. The diamond league format does need improving, with so many meets it’s not surprising that a lot of the big names decide to give the smaller ones a miss. If you boiled it down to six events I think you’d create more spectacular races. But you then create a problem where athletics doesn’t get that week to week exposure you get with other sports.

    I’ve got no time at all for the proposal of getting rid of events completely. It was suggested a few years ago that triple jump would just been done away with. They don’t appear to be very keen on hammer, will they just do away with it? They are unique disciplines, TJers rarely make good LJers, hammer throwers rarely make good discus/shot throwers.

    He also alluded to just having semis and finals, which I can’t see getting off the ground because tougher standards would make it much harder for young athletes to gain their first championship experience and some of the smaller nations would only send a handful of athletes. I don’t agree that the championships need to be shorter in general, there seems to be no such trend in other sports- the football World Cup expansion for example.

    #69182
    Profile photo of geoff
    geoff
    Participant

    A few years ago I posted on this forum an April 1st spoof that the IAAF were considering reducing the size of tracks to 300m so they could be fitted into a football stadium thereby reducing the cost of constructing major stadia. The IAAF also ‘proposed’ changing events to 100m, 300m, 600m, 1500m, 3000m, 100m hurdles, long jump, high jump, shot, javelin and octathlon. Anything longer than 3000m would be held on the road. Relays could be 4x300m or medley. No cages, water jumps or pole vault to reduce cost.

    It didn’t fool many people but now look at what Coe is proposing!

    In order to generate enough money for athletes to make a living there has to be a reduction in events and competitions have to be meaningful and competitive. It also helps our sport at grassroots level where a reduced number of events can be easily programmed into a a young athletes meeting and clubs can operate with a smaller number of coaches.

    I’m not saying I agree with all Coe has suggested nor with everything I’ve written above but they should be seriously discussed. And I say this as someone who has coached international decathletes, heptathletes, high jumpers, pole vaulters and hurdlers!

    #69183
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    It seems to me that Coe is proposing to turn athletics into little more than a circus show.

    He has had his day as a competitor, and is his objective now just to leave behind some form of legacy to mark his time as IAAF President?

    I dont trust his motives.

    #69193
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    I read the article and found that Seb Coe was not proposing anything other than the need for a thorough review of Athletics. He doesn’t support any particular proposal, he just feels the need to encourage those in Athletics to think seriously about what can be done to make the sport better, more financially sustainable and especially more popular with younger audiences. He’s mentioned loads of possibile changes to get the debate started but does not say he supports any of them.

    Surely this was part of the manifesto on which he was elected IAAF President i.e. he is doing exactly what he said he would do. Again!

    On just the issue of 400m tracks, he has a point. Clearly 400m stadia which hold enough people for global championships are massive, very expensive and don’t readily suit other sports for which large stadia are required. Which is why, across the world, there are a number of white elephants which lie decaying or at least underused. Athletics MIGHT do itself a favour by going to 300m tracks?

    #69194
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    It seems to me that Coe is proposing to turn athletics into little more than a circus show.

    He has had his day as a competitor, and is his objective now just to leave behind some form of legacy to mark his time as IAAF President?

    I dont trust his motives.

    Or maybe he’s the kind of visionary the sport needs?

    Big Champs (usually, but not always) and some DL attract big crowds. Domestic meets don’t, participation numbers are down, drugs, reducing TV coverage etc all add up to a sport with problems.

    Other sports have moved on in so many respects and it’s right that everything should be on the table. Personally I wouldn’t want to see too many gimmicks, but its a changing world and the governing body has the responsibility of ensuring that the sport develops its appeal and attractiveness for all stakeholders – kids, the elite, spectators, sponsors etc. I regard twenty20 cricket as gimmicky and disposable, but there’s no doubt of its attractiveness and commercial value that helps keeps the clubs afloat. In an era where the pace of change in all aspects of life is amazingly fast we need to adapt, or at least properly consider adapting. It might be that the right answer is to largely keep the status quo (internationally possibly, domestically can’t be), but open minds and creative thinking are needed. As is the case for senior leaders in any organisation.

    And what’s so bad about leaving a legacy? Aren’t all top bods charged with doing exactly that, leaving their organisation in a better position than they found it and well set up for the future?

    #69201
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Ursus and Laps

    You can both think what you like. Thats a matter entirely for you.

    Me? I dont trust Coe one little bit. 300 metre tracks? Lets just throw away the entire heritage of our sport shall we? Perhaps we could have 4×75 metre relays!

    Nothing wrong with leaving a legacy, Ursus, as long as it is a sensible one which will stand the test of time.

    Quote Coe ”A greater focus on semis and finals, so you are not having the souffle collapsing halfway through the evening”

    Everything I’m reading leads me to a conclusion that we could end up with a freak show and nothing of any substance. It all sounds minimalist. Lets cater for fans with short attention spans. We could pack an entire World Champs into 4 days by going straight to semi’s. Lets just invite the top 16 and do away with heats. Lets scrap the hammer completely, and the triple jump. Elitist nonsense, not surprisingly coming from an elitist true blue.

    We must also consider the possibility that such thinking ,far from saving our sport, might actually sound the death knoll.

    #69202
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    …..Imagine the cost of tickets for a World Champs run over (say) 4 days !

    Likely to be out of my range, especially if I wanted to take my 4 kids.

    #69209
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Steve
    That’s a rant straight out of Jeremy’s textbook.

    You have been wrong about Coe all the way through.
    Sure he is a politician, as the job entails, and he’s going to be met with scepticism much of the time thanks to the likes of Diack and Blatter, but as ever it is what a person does that matters.
    On Russia, Doping in general, Re-organisation of IAAF to improve governance and minimise the possibilities of future corruption and now wanting to change Athletics to meet modern needs I think he is doing the things I would want and expect of him.

    Surely even you can see that he is not personally proposing these changes but stirring the pot to get them talked about. He is in fact leading. Which is exactly what he should be doing. My guess is that only limited changes will follow. It’s a very conservative sport. But he’s got to try to make the sport think about its future.

    He has also got a point about the length of Championships and whether they would be better in future at say 7/8 days rather than 10 days. The cost and lack of enthusiasm for hosting them and the television and other platforms experience probably being the issues which most prompt that debate.

    #69210
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Laps

    I don’t like Coe.
    I don’t like the language he uses.
    I think he is an empire-builder.

    He may turn out to be the hero you paint him to be. Good for you to have such trust in him and his qualities.
    Just one question for you. Do you really believe he knew nothing of the corruption going on around him during his time as vice-President? Because if he did your faith in him is totally unjustifiable.

    Maybe I’m ranting. Maybe you are naive.

    #69211
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Lets cater for fans with short attention spans

    I think you were being facetious when you said that Steve, but it nails it. That’s exactly the way younger generations ARE going; instant gratification and move on is becoming the order of the day. People are becoming much more choosy in the way they invest their time and the sport ignores this at its peril.

    I think Laps is right that it’s a conservative sport and I wouldn’t anticipate massive change in the global shop window. But beneath that there’s much that can be thought about. Street athletics for instance isn’t really my bag, but it seems quite popular, attracting casual spectators and TV coverage.

    Today’s barmy idea is tomorrow’s accepted norm.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Profile photo of ursus ursus.
    #69213
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Ursus

    No I wasn’t being facetious (for a change!).

    The idea of cutting straight to the semis and doing away with heats is what I was referring to.
    If that happens you won’t see any athletes from unusual and exotic places. Because the ‘Corporate Boys’ and lobbyists just want to cut to the chase for 3 or 4 days. Lets get it on and get it over.
    Cant be bothered with all these ‘boring’ heats. Mustn’t have the ‘souffle’ collapsing half way through. Lets just have final after final. Then we can all get back on our mobiles.

    #69214
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    Disagree entirely with the negative view of Coe, who is at least attempting to consider the way forward to arrest the major indifference to our sport across the globe; many of the hardcore fans of track and field across the globe are conservative in the extreme and want no changes whatsoever; note the hysteria when 4 rounds instead of six in the jumps was suggested.
    Won’t work to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that all is well.

    For me all aspects of our very difficult sport to popularise should be seriously looked at; even at 80 years of age I cannot see the point of denying the modern generation’s different attitude to sport, such as cricket, for one, where county cricket as I knew and loved it for generations will be dead in less than ten years.

    I accept that we may have to get rid of some events… so what.? There are currently 48 events in the globals men and women. Far too many imo.

    #69220
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Laps

    I don’t like Coe.
    I don’t like the language he uses.
    I think he is an empire-builder.

    He may turn out to be the hero you paint him to be. Good for you to have such trust in him and his qualities. Just one question for you. Do you really believe he knew nothing of the corruption going on around him during his time as vice-President? Because if he did your faith in him is totally unjustifiable.

    Maybe I’m ranting. Maybe you are naive.

    Maybe.

    I am not sure I like Coe that much myself, and sometimes he says things in a way which exposes his ambivalence and politician’s devious side. But what has that got to do with anything? If he wasn’t a politician he wouldn’t last in the job five minutes. How would you handle being in Putin’s crosshairs or maintain civility with some of the lowlife he is required to deal with? However I don’t see him as an empire builder in this job. More like he is partly dismantling an empire and making himself more accountable and limited in decision making than previous encumbents.

    I think it unlikely that anyone in a senior position at the IAAF was unaware of corruption rumours. My guess for what it’s worth is Coe knew some of the allegations, whilst deliberately avoiding knowing too much. There is a massive difference between thinking something like that is true and being able to prove it, or do anything useful about it. His position as front runner for next President put him in a tricky position. His best chance of cleaning up the IAAF and tackling doping was to pass the parcel and keep on doing what he was doing. He made the right choice in my opinion.

    What matters to me is what he does now. Some journalists want to nail him over what he knew about Diack and his henchmen, or drag him down over Nike, or whatever. They clearly haven’t got much, though with the media’s obsession with getting people sacked it doesn’t take much. If they did bring him down it would be an enormous disservice to Athletics.

    I don’t see him as a hero, just a bloke doing the job he promised to do. While he’s doing it he deserves our support. You don’t have to like him or even trust him. What you should have is an objective appreciation of the job he is doing and the unlikelihood of anyone else doing it as well up to now.

    #69221
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    Laps, Coe has talked before about a shortened worlds so I think there is cause for concern. Next years Euro’s follows the same format as last years – in the sprints if you’re ranked in the top 10 you get an automatic bye to the semis. I thought that was something they introduced last year to attract some of the bigger names who may have been put off by doubling up in an Olympic year, but it looks like its here to stay.

    Michael Johnson was asked a few weeks on twitter what problems were there with the way the sport is presented. He replied there are too many events and not enough opportunity to develop a narrative. Doing away with a couple of field events won’t change the fact that sprinters only perform on track for a sum total of a few minutes each championships. If anything if you forego the heats there’s even less of a narrative. No chance for athletes to build form or find momentum.

    I’m not a particular fan of Coe personally, but give me Coe over Bubka any day of the week. It took guts to stand up to Russia on several occasions, Bach has pretty much acquiesced on Russia competing at the Winter Olympics. To some extent didn’t Coe have to turn a blind eye to the corruption at the IAAF in order to get into the top seat, from which point he can start to change the culture and clean up the organisation.

    #69223
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    I don’t mind being out on a limb on this issue, (and I certainly don’t seem to have any support!),because I’m being honest.

    I doubt I would ever go to another Champs if some of these proposals are rubber stamped.In fact I probably wouldn’t watch at all.

    I don’t want 300 metre tracks.
    I don’t want to see events disappear.
    I don’t want to see heats effectively scrapped in certain events. (some of the best drama happens in the heats).

    I AM in favour of innovations such as ‘City-centre events’. But I don’t want to see the World Champs, Olympics, European Champs and Commies dumbed down to suit the ‘quick thrill’ brigade.

    Coe can shove his visionary ‘souffle’ where the sun don’t shine.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Profile photo of stevek26 stevek26.
    #69225
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    What I see blowing in on this wind of change is combined able-bodied and para Championships. Maybe throw in some trans-gender events.

    Save costs, provide a rationale for scrapping a number of able-bodied events to accommodate the para ones.
    Wider audience, maybe full houses in certain cities.

    So those who can comprehend and appreciate all the different classifications will be in their element.
    And it will be final after final……..

    ”Its life, Jim, but not as we know it”

    #69226
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    I don’t mind being out on a limb on this issue, (and I certainly don’t seem to have any support!),because I’m being honest.

    I doubt I would ever go to another Champs if some of these proposals are rubber fact I probably wouldn’t watch at all.

    I don’t want 300 metre tracks.
    I don’t want to see events disappear.
    I don’t want to see heats effectively scrapped in certain events. (some of the best drama happens in the heats).

    I AM in favour of innovations such as ‘City-centre events’. But I don’t want to see the World Champs, Olympics, European Champs and Commies dumbed down to suit the ‘quick thrill’ brigade.

    Coe can shove his visionary ‘shouffle’ where the sun don’t shine.

    (1) This thread took off on the wrong foot. They are not Coe’s proposals. They are just ideas among many others open for debate. The article makes that clear.
    (2) The idea of adding some 300m and indeed 200m tracks is clearly aimed as a way of spreading the sport and adding flexibility and interest.
    (3) I was at seven sessions of the World Championships in London. Some of those sessions were thin on action. With some events reduced in numbers a tighter programme in less days would actually be an improvement. I don’t see that semi-final contenders beating guys from small islands in the South Pacific by the length of a street adds anything to the narrative and I was there for 100m Round 1. Name another sport where so many complete no-hopers, including some of our own, compete in the sport’s showpiece event? Was Michael Johnson not talking about narrative through the season, rather than narrative through Championship rounds.
    (4) In the stadium you can’t follow everything going on eg field events at the other end of the stadium. TV is not interested in showing 90% of the field event action. So whether you are there or not you have a selection. Other sports eg Cycling have to select which events are included in major championships and which have to be foregone for reasons of competitor numbers, time and cost. Maybe it’s time for Athletics to choose?

    #69228
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Laps

    There is no need at all to shorten major Champs.

    I’ve been going to them since 1974, and never been bored.

    You talk about seeing no value in a ‘no-hoper’ competing against a ‘semi-finalist’. Really?
    No-hopers have to start somewhere and deserve the chance to represent their countries, and compete against the best. And the narrative that seems to have passed you by is the fact Championship performers have rounds to progress through. An important part of getting to the top of the podium is being able to manage rounds, physically and mentally.

    I just don’t see the need to ‘fix’ or ‘streamline’ major championships.

    Get the drug issues sorted out and I’m guessing the TV channels will want to buy the sport and the fans will return.
    Mess up the format and it could be goodnight Vienna.

    #69235
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Having just read the BBC Sport version of his rhetoric, I pretty much disagree with everything that is coming out of his mouth.

    For example, why do athletes all have to have a Bolt-like presence? Bolt was a one off. Plenty of other athletes have sunny personalities (like Dasher), some are not so gregarious. They are all individuals. He wasn’t exactly ‘Mr. Personality’ when he was running. His abilities did the talking for him.

    This all sounds so gimmicky and I’m surprised I seem to stand alone on this issue.

    #69236
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    Oh for Christ’s sake! He is trying to get a debate going. Being deliberately edgy.
    Seeing if there is anything which hits a chord and gathers support.
    Trying to move the story away from doping to the future.
    Surely you can see that?

    #69237
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    I’ve been going to them since 1974, and never been bored.

    What appeals to a 53 yo (I’m assuming you started going when you were 10!) aficionado may be very different to a generation “attention span of a gnat” teenager.

    If you compare Coe’s win in LA 84 and Manganoi in London a couple of months ago….both faced heats, semi and final, both wore similar kits, both ran around 400m synthetic tracks, both ran to within a second of each other – Coe was actually faster! I’m not saying that’s bad, just that it’s unchanged and we have to be very conscious of a changing world.

    I don’t think the globals are the issue though. In this country, particularly, we have little problem getting people to watch top level sport, but getting them to participate at a lower level as competitor or in other capacities is a real challenge and I’d argue that’s where much of the creative budget needs to be spent.

    #69238
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    Am with Ursus I’m not convinced that the major champs are where the major issues lie. It’s the one time of year when the media & casual fans take a big interest in the sport. There could be the odd tweak – I think there’s an argument for reinstating the rest day midweek & London had the right idea by reducing the number of morning sessions but no major surgery required.

    However the sport can’t sustain itself on the back of 1 week a year. There needs to be meaningful & engaging competition elsewhere. I must admit as a fan I watch Diamond Leagues if I’m at home but I don’t go plan my life around them so I probably ly only watch about half of them live.

    I don’t know what the solutions are & I don’t think Coe does either but I do recognise change is required

    #69239
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    Amazed at the depressing attitude of Steve on this subject.
    I recall well taking a friend and passing fan of sport to his first session of T and F at national level and I tried valiantly to explain everything happening while the poor guy tried to follow two field events and track at the same time.. He never went to another meet again… “too bloody confusing” were his words. Its the only sport where you can not hope follow the detailed action and those comments that you should be able to are just wide of the mark. Try tennis, cycling, horsey stuff, swimming etc… they don’t have the similar problem.

    Its naïve in the extreme for anybody to have pops at the top people in world wide sport; they get there through very determined dedication to climb up the greasy pole and are hardly likely to sacrifice their ambition cos some people don’t like them behaving like politicians… jesus, they are politicians; that’s their whole raison d’etre… at least we can hope that Seb is not utterly corrupt like so many top brass in sport… the Brazilians, Russians, Africans and maybe Bubka, Frankie even, and a whole load of grubby people lining their own pockets… that’s the world we inhabit sadly.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Profile photo of philipo philipo.
    #69245
    Profile photo of ursus
    Ursus
    Participant

    Philipo, excellent point about T&F being very hard to follow in a stadium. Very true, especially somewhere as vast the Olympic Stadium. Even as a fan with particular interests I get very easily distracted by other action.

    #69246
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    I don’t have a ‘depressing’ attitude, Philipo.

    I just don’t agree with you guys (you’ve been out on a limb plenty of times yourself).

    And to be honest I’m not bothered if you, Laps, Ursus etc disagree with me, neither am I sure why Laps seems to be getting so hot under the collar.

    I find Coe irritating, arrogant and Machiavellian. Whether Bubka and one or two others might be worse is hardly what we are debating, is it ?

    If we end up with truncated global champs that are held over 4 days with just the creme de la creme taking part my guess is you will all be singing a different tune.

    By the way I’m 65, Ursus. I was 22 when I went to Rome in 1974. I had tickets for every session and I thoroughly enjoyed it, heats and all. Thats why I kept repeating the exercise, and made some good friends along the way.

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