Athletics Weekly | Commonwealth Games Selections - Athletics Weekly

Commonwealth Games Selections

This topic contains 75 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of carterhatch carterhatch 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 76 total)
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  • #69564
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    quando, quando, quando (yes, I know it means when, when, when, …but you get the idea)

    Why, Jazmin sawyers… maybe she is a favourite of the selectors, but she has always turned up when asked and has a beautiful, beaming smile and through her performances on, what was it, The Voice, will have thousandss of tweeting teenagers ripe for engagement to keep England Athletics media team busy … rightly or wrongly…

    what I don’t get is taking a couple of relay runners who, more than likely, will be on a jolly… HAA and Margaret Adeoye for example … neither warrant individual places, and so makes no sense to take them over someone who has an individual qualifying mark but been left behind…

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by Profile photo of carterhatch carterhatch.
    #69566
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    It is clear to me that selectors have their favourites that is reflected by the selection.

    For their favourites read made choices of those available selecting the athletes most likely to make finals and win medals in Australia in April 2018. Which, of course, is the sensible way for any sport to select it’s team.

    #69571
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    quando, quando, quando (yes, I know it means when, when, when, …but you get the idea)

    Why, Jazmin sawyers… maybe she is a favourite of the selectors, but she has always turned up when asked and has a beautiful, beaming smile and through her performances on, what was it, The Voice, will have thousandss of tweeting teenagers ripe for engagement to keep England Athletics media team busy … rightly or wrongly…

    what I don’t get is taking a couple of relay runners who, more than likely, will be on a jolly… HAA and Margaret Adeoye for example … neither warrant individual places, and so makes no sense to take them over someone who has an individual qualifying mark but been left behind…

    exactly, it was the same three long jumpers last time and sawyers was the one that came away with a silver medal, ugen and proctor although more talented are also more likely to flake out, sawyers was probably one of the first names picked

    #69572
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    quando, quando, quando (yes, I know it means when, when, when, …but you get the idea)

    Why, Jazmin sawyers… maybe she is a favourite of the selectors, but she has always turned up when asked and has a beautiful, beaming smile and through her performances on, what was it, The Voice, will have thousandss of tweeting teenagers ripe for engagement to keep England Athletics media team busy … rightly or wrongly…

    what I don’t get is taking a couple of relay runners who, more than likely, will be on a jolly… HAA and Margaret Adeoye for example … neither warrant individual places, and so makes no sense to take them over someone who has an individual qualifying mark but been left behind…

    Not one to defend Harry AA generally but here goes…

    The relays represent very strong medal chances; England won medals in all 4 relays in 2014 so makes sense to take them seriously. By that you really need a squad of 6 (any more is OTT but 6 is fine) which is the 5 selected individual sprinters + Harry. Taking only 5 is a bit risky in case of injuries.

    Harry clearly wouldn’t have got a look in had CJ & Prescod opted to go. And Edoburun also presumably decided to skip as with the rest of his training group. After that on merit the choice is between Harry AA & Kilty – much of a muchness really but at least Harry is affable and so a better tourist as it were.

    Similarly Adeoye probably wouldn’t have been selected had Laviai opted to go.

    #69573
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    Here’s that tweet about marathon times, posted by Chris Thompson:

    To medal at commies: 2014’2h12, 10’2h15, 06’2h14, 02’2h13, 98’2h19.

    I wonder who those outraged by Johnny Mellor’s omission would like to exclude from the existing selections?

    My ire is directed at the English Commonwealth organisation for giving athletics 25 fewer slots than were available for Delhi.

    Re Prscod: the whole of his training group have opted out. Presumably their coach has his reasons.

    #69574
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    The quota comes from the Gold Coast organisers & the global Commonwealth Games Federation not Team England. Athletics Canada has a quota of 36 – they selected 50 for Glasgow. Wales has a quota across all individual sports.

    #69575
    Profile photo of philipo
    philipo
    Participant

    It is surely inconceivable that with the CG at a time of the year when track is usually waking up to serious training efforts, and with the WI Champs a month before, and the big one for me in Berlin in the Summer, and with nobody here, I presume, knowing the full details of all athletes wishes about the upcoming 12 months as to availability, and the quotas submitted by the CG people, that we would have had no discussions, opinions and unhappiness about the 75 athletes selected.

    #69576
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    The quota comes from the Gold Coast organisers the global Commonwealth Federation not Team England. Athletics Canada has a quota of 36 – they selected 50 for Glasgow. Wales has a quota across all individual sports.

    Thanks for the info, Ladyloz.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of sidelined sidelined.
    #69577
    Profile photo of justrunfast
    justrunfast
    Participant

    Baffled by Prescod not going. He needs competition and championship experience, and as he’s not suited to indoors the CG would have provided that and a stepping stone to bigger things. He tweeted he started winter training on Oct 18, which since his last race was Aug 5, is a 10 week break. He finished the season healthy and I feel his racing programme needs looking at. He should do the CG and EC next year in preparation for 2019/20.

    lol the guy won nationals and made the semi final at worlds yet you think he needs more championship experience?

    Some of you are going OTT with your outrage, I shall say it again some athlete have TURNED DOWN SELECTION. Also to put this into perspective, athletes and coaches work on year but also olympic cycle plans this year is seen as a “down year” with no world or olympic champs gives athletes a chance to get healthy work on weaknesses or maybe try a different event. Thinking you can simply work out how many weeks an athlete has had rest and justify that as a reason as to why they should do CWG and Euros is ludicrous. When in reality most have come off personal bests and run the most races they ever have in a season……

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of justrunfast justrunfast.
    #69579
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Here’s that tweet about marathon times, posted by Chris Thompson:
    To medal at commies: 2014’2h12, 10’2h15, 06’2h14, 02’2h13, 98’2h19.
    I wonder who those outraged by Johnny Mellor’s omission would like to exclude from the existing selections?

    Marathon PBs are notoriously poor at converting to medal outcomes like that. On foreign soil, in a different climate, on a championship course, against 3 x Kanyans, 3 x Ugandans, 3 x Tanzanians, 2 x Australians, 3 x South Africans all with better PBs than Mellor, the race will be more complex than simply duplicating his PB to earn a medal.

    In terms of omitting others, I’d tactically omit one relay squad member and work on the basis that either Mellor would possibly get injured and therefore free up a spot, or take a risk that the sprinters can perform with a reduced size team. I’d bet at least one relay sprinter selected / taken doesn’t actually end up running a step when they are down there.

    #69580
    Profile photo of foxyjarvis
    foxyjarvis
    Participant

    Prescod’s lack of racing nous was reflected in the WC final. He won the trials and made the WC final despite his programme. 7th place was not a reflection of his ability. He started the season with 10.09 on a chilly May day on his home track and is clearly a sub 10&20 athlete.
    My point about his R&R was he came out of the WC healthy and with an opportunity to race against world class athletes, and he didn’t. Anyway, I hope he has a successful and healthy 2018.

    #69582
    Profile photo of justrunfast
    justrunfast
    Participant

    10.09 was a chilly day? LOL why lie I was there!

    Why are people just assuming it’s easy and normal to be championship ready at the start of April then again for Euros?

    #69583
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Steve Way (CWG marathoner in 2014) comments on the MarathonTalk podcast this week that the allocation of places to the NGBs is simply an allocation of beds. EA got allocated 75 out of the “pot” (of 400?).

    In 2014 they took 137 athletes to CWG. Clearly something had to give.

    #69584
    Profile photo of 200sprint
    200sprint
    Participant

    You are missing the point. Selection was based on 2017 performances and standards. Sawyer did not have a good season. There are many athletes not selected who could have won medals in a championship where in some events the standard is not very high missing Europeans and Americans. England should have increased the numbers if it came down to how many medals could have been won. Selectors should not just gone for the favourites ones like Sawyers, HAA, Beesley etc.

    #69586
    Profile photo of 200sprint
    200sprint
    Participant

    So I see. Forget all the hard training in the rain etc. You get selected because you have a beeming smile or affable.

    #69591
    Profile photo of laps
    Laps
    Participant

    You are missing the point. Selection was based on 2017 performances and standards. Sawyer did not have a good season. There are many athletes not selected who could have won medals in a championship where in some events the standard is not very high missing Europeans and Americans. England should have increased the numbers if it came down to how many medals could have been won. Selectors should not just gone for the favourites ones like Sawyers, HAA, Beesley etc.

    Yours is a selective reading of the selection policy. It’s clear that they were always going to use their discretion to select athletes they thought have a better chance of a medal, and 2017 performances might not be conclusive.

    So I see. Forget all the hard training in the rain etc. You get selected because you have a beeming smile or affable.

    Athletics does seem to have more than it’s fair share of people who are obsessed with ‘input’ and qualification times. Whereas it is ‘output’ and what is likely to happen in the championships that should matter in any selection process. Jazmin Sawyers has won Commonwealth and European medals, Grice got to World Championship and Olympic finals, Meghan Beesley 3rd in a World Championship semi-final so they are probably seen as a good bet to perform well when it matters most.

    #69592
    Profile photo of foxyjarvis
    foxyjarvis
    Participant

    JRF, I’m not assuming it’s easy, but for Prescod’s capabilities and development it would be advantageous.
    I was there when he ran 10.09,so I’m not lying and I was there when he ran in the WC final, a race you don’t seem to think he was in. Do you want a weather report for that race as well?

    #69593
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    So I see. Forget all the hard training in the rain etc. You get selected because you have a beeming smile or affable.

    If that’s a response to my Harry AA post talk about selective quoting. Care to address any of the other points I made?

    #69594
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    Prescod is above criticism as far as opting out of the commonwealths goes. He had a phenomenal season last year, I don’t think he lacks racing nous either. His history of injuries is well documented, if he and his coach think racing sparingly early season is the way to go I don’t see a problem with it

    #69595
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    Most of the decisions are fairly self explanatory when you start filtering the top lists of performances in 2017 against other commonwealth nations only.

    Sawyers is a bit of an anomaly as she ranks similarly to Mellor in about 16th place in the Commonwealth (once KJT is discounted)

    #69597
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    Most of the decisions are fairly self explanatory when you start filtering the top lists of performances in 2017 against other commonwealth nations only.

    Sawyers is a bit of an anomaly as she ranks similarly to Mellor in about 16th place in the Commonwealth (once KJT is discounted)

    as already pointed out, sawyers was probably one of the first names on the list, the same three athletes were picked last time and sawyers was the one the came away with the commonwealth silver

    #69598
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    No doubt she made the first round with 2 (indoor) marks above the standard, but the same is true of Mellor.

    Once you’re in round 1 the criteria are:-

    "3.2 The Selection Panel will select athletes in rounds as explained below. The Selection Panel will prioritise athletes they believe can realistically win a medal at the Games. In coming to this decision the Selection Panel will consider, in any order that they see fit, the following factors:
    ▪ The Commonwealth ranking lists at the time of the selection meeting;
    ▪ Each athlete’s consistency of performances within the stated qualification period;
    ▪ Each athlete’s previous National and International Championships performances;
    ▪ Head to Head performances within the stated qualification period; and
    ▪ Any other factor(s) which in the panel’s opinion will impact on an athlete’s ability to win a medal in the Games."

    So she’d be about level with Mellor on the first bullet, difficult to compare on the second (you could argue his is one stand out performance, you could argue 1 marathon per year is sufficient, you could argue she has been inconsistent in the outdoor season), she has definitely got the edge on the third bullet, 4th isn’t relevant, and “any other factor” could be her sunny demeanour… ;-)

    I’d say she edges it, but her place must have been one of the more contentious ones, unless you believe there are some behind the scenes stuff going on.

    #69599
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    I agree with most of what JRF has written on this subject. Clearly the CG’s are not top priority for some athletes. Which is a pity because I think the Gold Coast would be a hoot, with all the athletes from different sports in the village.

    I am also baffled by remarks that Sawyers is lucky to be going. I’d bet a pretty pound that she makes the final and contends for a medal.

    #69608
    Profile photo of sidelined
    sidelined
    Participant

    We all need a bit of outrage to entertain us in the off-season.

    This post in this link contains a list of Commonwealth rankings for English athletes if you only rank three from every nation:

    Jonny Mellor omission – the selectors’ dilemma

    Mellor is ranked 17th, the same as Sawyers.

    Men
    100m
    James Dasaolu 12
    Adam Gemili 13
    200m
    Nethaneel Mitchell-Blake 7
    Danny Talbot 10
    Zharnel Hughes 14
    400m
    Matt Hudson-Smith 8
    800m
    Kyle Langford 10
    Elliot Giles 7
    Andrew Osagie 11
    1500m
    Charlie Grice 11
    10,000m
    Andy Vernon 11
    110m hurdles
    Andrew Pozzi 4
    Dave King 14
    400m hurdles
    Jack Green 5
    20km walk
    Tom Bosworth 3
    Callum Wilkinson 11
    High jump
    Robbie Grabarz 1
    Tom Gale 2
    Chris Baker 6
    Pole vault
    Adam Hague 5
    Luke Cutts 5
    Long jump
    Greg Rutherford 7
    Dan Bramble 11
    Triple jump
    Nathan Fox 3
    Nathan Douglas 4
    Ben Williams 9
    Hammer
    Nick Miller 1
    Taylor Campbell 3
    Decathlon
    Ashley Bryant 4
    John Lane 8

    Women
    100m
    Asha Philip 11
    Desiree Henry 8
    200m
    Dina Asher-Smith 3
    Bianca Williams 8
    800m
    Shelayna Oskan-Clarke 3
    Adelle Tracey 10
    1500m
    Sarah McDonald 12
    Jess Judd 9
    Katie Snowden 12
    5000m
    Laura Weightman 6
    100m hurdles
    Tiffany Porter 7
    400m hurdles
    Meghan Beesley 14
    3000m steeplechase
    Rosie Clarke 8
    Iona Lake 10
    20km walk
    Gemma Bridge 4
    High jump
    Morgan Lake 1
    Bethan Partridge 14
    Pole vault
    Holly Bradshaw 2
    Lucy Bryan 8
    Molly Caudery 10
    Long jump
    Lorraine Ugen 3
    Shara Proctor 6
    Jazmin Sawyers 17
    Shot put
    Rachel Wallader 7
    Amelia Strickler 9
    Discus
    Jade Lally 4
    Hammer
    Sophie Hitchon 1
    Heptathlon
    Katarina Johnson-Thompson 1
    Niamh Emerson 3
    Katie Stainton 6
    Marathon
    Alyson Dixon 6
    Sonia Samuels 10

    #69610
    Profile photo of larkim
    larkim
    Participant

    I was one place out with my count of the rankings, but just about right overall – Sawyers and Mellor are the lowest ranked CWG potential athletes in England who have the qualification standard who want to go to the Gold Coast.

    Whether Sawyers proves to be a better bet than Mellor would have been we’ll never know (unless there’s some change which allows him to be included, e.g. an early retirement from the squad from a badly injured contender already selected – which has to be a possibility).

    Just because 4 years ago she got a CWG medal (because KJT pulled out and Procter was injured?) doesn’t make her a nailed on bet for a final spot, let along a medal. In London this year she was the third placed English LJer and didn’t get out of the quali pool. Her only quali marks this year in excess of 6:60 were indoors in Feb and March. Not the most encouraging trajectory if you want to read it that way. I’ll be delighted if she performs better than this and as an athlete who “presents” well I think she is broadly an asset to the team – if that was the tipping factor in her favour if everything else was finely poised, I’d have no problem with that (though I very much doubt it was, as I posted above).

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