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2018 … thoughts

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  • #68504
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    Reading about Asha Philips looking forward to the IAAF World Indoor Championships in Birmingham 2018 (which will be staged between March 1-4) it made me think n general about the British athletes’ schedule for next year, what with the Commonwealth Games on the Gold Coast between 4 and 15 April.

    What will be behind individual decisions, it is a ‘home’ world indoors after all, and UK Athletics might want a strong team, but can athletes peak for both? Probably not. Will we see far more British athletes competing indoors in the lead up to Birmingham, but also using it, equally, as build up to the Commonwealths…

    Laura Muir has already announced she will be missing the Commonwealths (a fair decision as she does have a very tough day job of passing her veterinary medicine exams but Scotland’s loss of a couple of medals) … Is it a pragmatic decision by Ms. Philip’s knowing her chances best lie indoors, and that she faces strong competition for the England team in 100 (does she still opt to run the relay)

    Will the likes of Kilty focus on the World’s knowing his chances of making the England selection for 100 is very slim…

    Will Laviai Nielsen emerge as a specialist at indoor 400m where she seems better suited … could some like PSD use the indoors to continue on her road to recovery (I note she did a SB this week), maybe Jodie Williams make the step up in distance, or Seren Bundy Davies could return after injury, and suddenly you have a very competitive 4×400 relay at the Worlds

    Could Mo Farah not be persuaded to make one last, very last, promise guv, track appearance at the World’s, as the BBC are desperate to do one last montage …

    It is an intriguing choice and what do other forum users think…

    #68505
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    I suspect there will be a bumper crop of medals at all three, the indoor worlds because its in the uk and more of our bigger names than usual will turn up – 9 is the record from 2012

    mccolgan has improved enough this year that she is in with a chance of medals at both, although the commonwealths may be a stretch

    #68506
    Profile photo of stevek26
    SteveK26
    Participant

    Interesting choices to be made.

    If I were an athlete I would definitely go to the Gold Coast in April, enjoy the village atmosphere and compete in guaranteed great conditions. Berlin would be a bonus.
    I suppose some will try and do the indoor Worlds and carry the fitness through to Brisbane, but more likely those who do the indoor circuit will then target the Europeans in August.

    I wonder what pressure will be applied by UK Athletics to get some medals at the World Indoors?

    I hope any extra pressure to compete indoors doesn’t result in a longer than usual injury list. I suspect it might.

    #68507
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    Next season certainly poses a lot of questions. Had the World Indoors not been in the UK, it may not have had the same allure … but I reckon athletes like Pozzi might see it as an opportunity to redeem himself.

    The Commonwealths, coming so early in the year, certainly before the outdoor season gets going, must need a step change in athlete preparation, with, to a degree, athletes having to make a conscious decision now, to aim to participate, which to my mind, involves using the indoor season as part of the preparation where they wouldn’t have in past years …

    Might we see KJT aim for Birmingham with an attempt on the world record in the indoor Pen and then take a more relaxed approach to the Commonwealths, challenging for the 200 maybe for a fun event, with one of the jumps in addition…

    I see all sorts of possibilities …

    Greg Rutherford targets the Worlds and then retires before a stellar career in broadcasting?
    As I already mentioned, Jodie Williams, make or break, steps up to 400 indoors, and if it goes well, carry onto the Commonwealths, as otherwise, what else is left for her…I noted Bianca Williams did a 400, is she thinking this is her best chance of getting to the Commonwealths?

    I see the Europeans as almost an after thought with no one particularly targeting the event but participating if selected as a result of their outdoord performances…

    As I said, intriguing…

    #68520
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    Next season certainly poses a lot of questions. Had the World Indoors not been in the UK, it may not have had the same allure … but I reckon athletes like Pozzi might see it as an opportunity to redeem himself.

    The Commonwealths, coming so early in the year, certainly before the outdoor season gets going, must need a step change in athlete preparation, with, to a degree, athletes having to make a conscious decision now, to aim to participate, which to my mind, involves using the indoor season as part of the preparation where they wouldn’t have in past years …

    Might we see KJT aim for Birmingham with an attempt on the world record in the indoor Pen and then take a more relaxed approach to the Commonwealths, challenging for the 200 maybe for a fun event, with one of the jumps in addition…

    I see all sorts of possibilities …

    Greg Rutherford targets the Worlds and then retires before a stellar career in broadcasting?
    As I already mentioned, Jodie Williams, make or break, steps up to 400 indoors, and if it goes well, carry onto the Commonwealths, as otherwise, what else is left for her…I noted Bianca Williams did a 400, is she thinking this is her best chance of getting to the Commonwealths?

    I see the Europeans as almost an after thought with no one particularly targeting the event but participating if selected as a result of their outdoord performances…

    As I said, intriguing…

    its a good point, kat should be targetting both the world indoors and the commonwealths early in the season as the commonweatlh competition is a lot weaker than the euros and she would be strong favourite for gold , then she can focus on the euros

    #68523
    Profile photo of miles
    miles
    Participant

    I wonder if we’ll see Akela Jones in the commonwealth hep? She seems to have disappeared off the radar in 2017.

    #68525
    Profile photo of occasionalhope
    OccasionalHope
    Participant

    She was injured.

    #68526
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    In fact, the selection for England Athletes for the Commonwealth Games is on the 2nd October, with a maximum team size of 75 (caveats apply), so that might answer some questions sooner rather than later …

    Presumably athletes are making selectors aware if they are not interested in going, like Muir (yes, I know she is Scottish), and I wonder what, if any, policy there is about going to both the Worlds and Commonwealths …

    With only two per nation at the Worlds, I could actually make a very strong case for the following to be selected on the women’s team

    60 DASHER, A Philip
    400 PSD, Laviai Nielsen
    800 Sharp, Oskan-Clarke
    1500 Muir, Weightman
    3000 Judd, McColgan
    60h Ofili, Porter
    4×400 PSD, Nielsen, Jodie Williams, Clark, Agyapong, SBD

    Thoughts …

    #68531
    Profile photo of irishman
    irishman
    Participant

    UKSport have directed, I believe, that the Euros is the ‘key’ event next year. The year is bookended by home indoor events – 2018 Birmingham Worlds and 2019 Glasgow Europeans. In addition, although Berlin is not a home games, it forms part of the “European Champs” concept of which Glasgow is a co-host, so it’ll have to be treated as a home games for certain purposes.

    As such, it’s a busy year albeit on lower scale, and the ‘expendible event’ on the surface would be the Commies…except England are bidding for the next one of those too, so again probably need to be seen to respect the CWG too!

    The answer? Not sure. Some doubling up, some use of wit, some testing of depth, some picking of opponants to test against (or avoid).

    For example, at the CWG could Zharnel Hughes, Delano Williams, Shara Proctor and Miguel Francis run, using Sonia O’Sullivan’s rule, for their ‘original’ islands, on the basis it provides opportunity for more GBR athletes to compete?

    Rutherford has already declared intent to do Birmingham and Berlin – I suspect he’ll skip Gold Coast. Muir is skipping Gold Coast as we know, and I suspect will aim for a Hassan showdown in Berlin. I’d like Lake to have another crack at a multievent, and Gold Coast would seem the best pick, she could do HJ at Birmingham. I’d ‘try’ to encourage KJT to a Birmingham, Berlin double, with maybe just the HJ in Gold Coast.

    Do we take ‘chance’ to give all our sprinters a good runout through gold coast and Berlin – in theory the CWG 200 could be stacked, especially if De Grasse is fit and takes the chance.

    #68532
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    some interesting thoughts, Irishman.

    I have always felt the Commonwealth Games are more ‘relaxed’ towards which ‘nations’ an athlete might represent and would anticipate the likes of Zarnel Hughes (Angullia) and Delano Williams (Turks and Caicos island) being able to represent their land of birth, if selected and available.

    Not sure if Shara Proctor’s dabble with triple jump has added to her form/injury this year but CG games would be a good place for her or other athletes to give an event a try… (I always thought that Jazmin Sawyers with her multi event background, might have given TJ a go) Other ideas might be a middle distance runner trying steeple chase but the prospect of facing the Africans might make it a baptism of fire)

    Morgan Lake, hmmm, I just dont see her returning to multi event know she has had a modicum of success at HJ, and a medal is certainly there for the taking at the CGs…

    You make a strong point about the Europeans, that I hadn’t thought of, so it is going to be a very long season…

    #68533
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    Stuff that I’ve picked up from where athletes are quoted are. CJ is planning to do World Indoors, Commonwealths & Euros. Have also seen Greg saying he’s targeting the triple. Saw several weeks ago that Morgan Lake said she wanted to do the Hep at Commonwealths but unless she has one lined up imminently she doesn’t have a qualifying Standard so seems unlikely.

    I don’t see what it would prove if KJT were to do the Hep in the Gold Coast. Standard is poor in Commonwealth with Brianne & Jess retired. She could win easily even with a poor performance in 1 or 2 events. I’d prefer her to do Pentathlon Indoors & then HJ/LJ in Gold Coast.

    Shara Proctor competed for England in Glasgow so don’t know if other overseas territories athletes will follow suit.

    #68539
    Profile photo of treadwater1
    treadwater1
    Participant

    I’m sure I read somewhere that WvN was planning on doubling up in the 100 and 200 and Omar McLeod is thinking of doing the 200.

    I hope we send a strong team to the world indoors and that some of our athletes who don’t usually compete indoors decide to do so. Perhaps Hudson-Smith could be persuaded to compete in his home city. The standards are extremely tough this time, as all the field events are straight finals. 1.97 for womens HJ which neither of our athletes have would have won plenty of medals over the years.

    KJT said last year she would like another shot at the world pentathlon record so I’d assume its in her plans

    #68542
    Profile photo of johannesfactotum
    JohannesFactotum
    Participant

    I wonder if we’ll see Akela Jones in the commonwealth hep? She seems to have disappeared off the radar in 2017.

    I’d love to see her in Birmingham. Wasn’t it 2016 NCAAs where she was poised to break the pentathlon WR?

    #68543
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    A few people have suggested Nielsen is an indoor specialist – presumably because her outdoor form didn’t match her indoor form. Isn’t it just as plausible that she didn’t recover quick enough from the stress factor?

    The only athlete who I think should rule out Birmingham is McColgan. She’s been a joy to watch this year but I can’t face watching her run in lane 2 for 15 laps again😀

    #68544
    Profile photo of sovietvest
    sovietvest
    Participant

    In fact, the selection for England Athletes for the Commonwealth Games is on the 2nd October, with a maximum team size of 75 (caveats apply), so that might answer some questions sooner rather than later …

    Presumably athletes are making selectors aware if they are not interested in going, like Muir (yes, I know she is Scottish), and I wonder what, if any, policy there is about going to both the Worlds and Commonwealths …

    With only two per nation at the Worlds, I could actually make a very strong case for the following to be selected on the women’s team

    60 DASHER, A Philip
    400 PSD, Laviai Nielsen
    800 Sharp, Oskan-Clarke
    1500 Muir, Weightman
    3000 Judd, McColgan
    60h Ofili, Porter
    4×400 PSD, Nielsen, Jodie Williams, Clark, Agyapong, SBD

    Thoughts …

    Good team selection! Aside from my comment on McColgan, I’d swap Weightman (who’s benefitting from higher mileage) and Judd (who needs to regain some of her former 800 speed).

    #68549
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    A fair comment about Nielsen, and I hope she does make her mark outdoors, her relay splits suggest to me there is more to come, and that she is a ‘chaser’, which is no bad thing …

    A good point about Weightman, so maybe a small amendment to the team, and the 1500/3000 is bound to see someone emerge from the chasing pack to take a slot at the World indoors…

    for completeness, I see the following selections for the women’s field events (just as an exercise to see how close I get and for debate on the forum as the season draws to a close…)

    LJ Ugen
    HJ Lake
    TJ No rep
    SP No Rep
    PEN KJT
    PV Bradshaw

    Indeed, I actually see in the women’s selection a number of medal chances …

    #68569
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    I’m sure I read somewhere that WvN was planning on doubling up in the 100 and 200 and Omar McLeod is thinking of doing the 200.

    I hope we send a strong team to the world indoors and that some of our athletes who don’t usually compete indoors decide to do so. Perhaps Hudson-Smith could be persuaded to compete in his home city. The standards are extremely tough this time, as all the field events are straight finals. 1.97 for womens HJ which neither of our athletes have would have won plenty of medals over the years.

    KJT said last year she would like another shot at the world pentathlon record so I’d assume its in her plans

    Have seen the same about WVN. Presumably South Africa (along with the Aussies & Kiwis) won’t finalise their team selections until a few weeks before the Gold Coast. Not sure how the Jamaican selection works.

    I wouldn’t have thought MHS would be suited to running indoors & I feel it would be asking for an injury. He should focus on the Gold Coast.

    #68572
    Profile photo of robo2
    robo2
    Participant

    i really dont see why we shouldnt send our strongest team possible to all three competitions, the indoor season should lead into the commonweatlhs and the likes of kjt should be doing the heptathlon at the commonwealths and pentathlon at the worlds, the point is medals after all and she has a chance of three next year, similarly we should be sending the likes of ugen, sawyers and proctor to the commonwealths

    #68573
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    The selection of the England team for the Commonwealths is on the 2nd October 2017, almost 6 months in advance … it seems very early, especially if, as you say, other countries like Australia are declaring just a few weeks before the games… this rather precludes anyone coming through the indoor season with great performances, who hadn’t already been selected, going to the CG … I can imagine a number of athletes being selected now, who for injury, illness or other reasons, will withdraw early in 2018, and I am not sure where that leaves the selectors to fill the gaps …

    By all means I hope we send strong teams to each competition, but I think peaking for all three is a real challenge…

    #68574
    Profile photo of hayden
    Hayden
    Participant

    Looking at the selection policy, it says performances from 1 January 2017 to 19 February 2018 will only be accepted, so for a lot of athletes they won’t actually have to chase indoor standards at the start of 2018, as they’ll either have them already from the 2017 indoor season or the 2017 outdoor season. That could play a part in which champs our athletes target, as it means all they have to do to secure their spot on the indoor team is win the trials. So it might be easier for these already-qualified athletes to peak at the right time for the required champs without exerting too much effort.

    #68575
    Profile photo of hayden
    Hayden
    Participant

    The selection of the England team for the Commonwealths is on the 2nd October 2017, almost 6 months in advance … it seems very early, especially if, as you say, other countries like Australia are declaring just a few weeks before the games… this rather precludes anyone coming through the indoor season with great performances, who hadn’t already been selected, going to the CG … I can imagine a number of athletes being selected now, who for injury, illness or other reasons, will withdraw early in 2018, and I am not sure where that leaves the selectors to fill the gaps …

    By all means I hope we send strong teams to each competition, but I think peaking for all three is a real challenge…

    I remember the early selection for the 2014 team causing problems as well – CJ and MHS both running sub 10/sub 45 times before the CWG qualification period ended but the team had already been selected way in advance.

    #68576
    Profile photo of carterhatch
    carterhatch
    Participant

    which policy are you referring to, Hayden?

    I was looking at the England Athletics Selection Policy …

    http://www.englandathletics.org/library-media/documents/England%20Athletics%202018%20Commonwealth%20Games%20Selection%20Policy%20FINAL%20-%20Oct%202016.pdf

    so the way read it, with selection on 2 October, the indoor season will have no bearing on who is selected for the CG … I’d like to know the thinking behind such an early selection policy…

    #68578
    Profile photo of hayden
    Hayden
    Participant

    which policy are you referring to, Hayden?

    I was looking at the England Athletics Selection Policy …

    http://www.englandathletics.org/library-media/documents/England%20Athletics%202018%20Commonwealth%20Games%20Selection%20Policy%20FINAL%20-%20Oct%202016.pdf

    so the way read it, with selection on 2 October, the indoor season will have no bearing on who is selected for the CG … I’d like to know the thinking behind such an early selection policy…

    Sorry, I was talking about the IAAF World Indoors entry standards policy – that being said, UKA could change the qualification periods like they often do, but theoretically speaking they could still select athletes with standards from 2017 regardless of their UKA policy.

    As for the Commonwealth policy I haven’t actually seen it yet.

    #68579
    Profile photo of trickstat
    trickstat
    Participant

    which policy are you referring to, Hayden?

    I was looking at the England Athletics Selection Policy …

    http://www.englandathletics.org/library-media/documents/England%20Athletics%202018%20Commonwealth%20Games%20Selection%20Policy%20FINAL%20-%20Oct

    so the way read it, with selection on 2 October, the indoor season will have no bearing on who is selected for the CG … I’d like to know the thinking behind such an early selection policy…

    I think a major issue here is that England Athletics has to submit its team to Commonwealth Games England (CGE) to approve selections before it can be finalised. With the Games being on the other side of the world in a different time zone, I also expect that the team will be traveling out there relatively early to acclimatise. Therefore I suspect that CGE would like the names finalised rather early.

    Personally, I am not that convinced whether it is that wise to use indoor form to select an outdoor track team. However, I do think it is a pity that if a non-selected jumper or shot putter displays good form in January they probably have no chance of going.

    #68592
    Profile photo of ladyloz
    Ladyloz
    Participant

    which policy are you referring to, Hayden?

    I was looking at the England Athletics Selection Policy …

    http://www.englandathletics.org/library-media/documents/England%20Athletics%202018%20Commonwealth%20Games%20Selection%20Policy%20FINAL%20-%20Oct%202016.pdf

    so the way read it, with selection on 2 October, the indoor season will have no bearing on who is selected for the CG … I’d like to know the thinking behind such an early selection policy…

    Some athletes are better suited to running indoors & some rarely or never run indoors. Ultimately the Commonwealths are an outdoor championships so we shouldn’t be picking indoor ‘specialists’ otherwise we’ll be picking likes of Kilty based on 60m form which isn’t relevant to running 100m for example.

    And given the time of year it’s being held picking in Autumn 2017 seems the best option. The England team for Melbourne 2006 was selected at a similar time. It’s not 100% ideal but I don’t se any viable alternative.

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